Is today's scouting too prissy?

[King Ding Dong]

RichardB, can you send National Supply Group a Near Miss form? You should run off some extra copies looks like they are going to need a few at Jambo.

[rdclements]

Related to this discussion, I have noticed that the adults joining the program with younger guys have significantly less experience in outdoor skills. Is this something that others have seen as well?

[King Ding Dong]

Related to this discussion, I have noticed that the adults joining the program with younger guys have significantly less experience in outdoor skills. Is this something that others have seen as well?

I am one. I am not confident taking the boys out in the woods, especially with the poorly marked trails at our local camp. I am however learning. IOLS was good, but not enough.

 

An Advanced Outdoor Leader Skills course would be very beneficial. T-1 for adults can not be accomplished in one weekend and it appears Woodbadge is cubicle skills in an outdoor classroom.

[DigitalScout]

Today' date=' video games and computers are such a massive world of adventure to explore, the scouts simply have nothing to offer to compete. Call of Duty is more interesting than scouting. It's better. It isn't real, which is a problem (is it?), but it is more fun for most kids.[/quote']

 

Many parents are happy to let their kids stay inside and play video games then they don't have to worry about them getting kidnapped while walking to the corner store or hit by a car while riding their bikes or molested while on an outing with a youth group, etc.

[Stosh]

Today' date=' video games and computers are such a massive world of adventure to explore, the scouts simply have nothing to offer to compete. Call of Duty is more interesting than scouting. It's better. It isn't real, which is a problem (is it?), but it is more fun for most kids.[/quote']

 

Many parents are happy to let their kids stay inside and play video games then they don't have to worry about them getting kidnapped while walking to the corner store or hit by a car while riding their bikes or molested while on an outing with a youth group, etc.

When does the reality in which kids supposed to live begin? Real life does not have a reset button.

[DigitalScout]

Today' date=' video games and computers are such a massive world of adventure to explore, the scouts simply have nothing to offer to compete. Call of Duty is more interesting than scouting. It's better. It isn't real, which is a problem (is it?), but it is more fun for most kids.[/quote']

 

Many parents are happy to let their kids stay inside and play video games then they don't have to worry about them getting kidnapped while walking to the corner store or hit by a car while riding their bikes or molested while on an outing with a youth group, etc.

I strongly believe we need to teach kids how to take risk and take the proper measures to avoid getting hurt or injured. For example, teach kids how to cross the street but look both ways before doing so. Or how to walk to the store on their own then what to do if they are approached by a stranger.

 

But the current trend for parents is to avoid any and all risk. I agree that you can't learn to take real-life risks by playing video games.

[Khaliela]

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

[Stosh]

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

Once upon a time there was chivalry. Even the old BSA books talked about it. Well, one day the evil sorceress declared chivalry dead. The End.

 

Over the past 50 years I have repeatedly taken flack for my chivalry, more notably referenced as chauvinism. I hold doors for certain people of which I will not divulge due to political correctness and a more genteel respect for our now more fair societal norms. We need to create heroes because they are so difficult to find anyone who will still do manly/heroic things that certain others can do just as well and made repeated note to all. That of course makes manliness a bit more, how do you say it in French, girle`. One's left only to wonder how long our society must endure the manly art of sports as well. It will be a sad day for all he manly sports fans out there when they finally realize that there are no more balls out there anymore.

[RichardB]

You folks really crack me up. I'm not sure knowing what happens quailfies as Prissy. I've know Prissy as my FIL's dog.

 

Lots of assumptions expressed. Hoping that there are few here who have the ability to think a little outside your sandbox and imagine the possibilities. Look at the reason that knowing about incidents and yes, near misses might be important to an organization who is truely committed to the health and safety of youth. It has nothing to do with lawyers or insurance. It is the right thing to do. Read this http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/SafetyThoughts/130205.aspx try and understand. Repeat as necessary.

 

On a serious note I hope the king will never have to make a call about the one did not miss or the person not coming home. Google may enlighten you to the probability you will make a call.

 

And once again, please don't assume.

So king, I see in another thread your plan as mentioned above and I quote: "...Next time we encounter a thunderstorm we will settle under a fly with a stack of Near Miss Reports and a count how close each lightning strike was. "Oo ohh, that one was even closer!, scribble , scribble". What is your mail stop at national ?..." would not have been a good plan or work out so well. Also in that particular thread there is a call for or reference to incident reporting. Are you all still so sure that having factual data from those involved in incidents is a waste of time or would you think that maybe it is important (although a lagging indicator) to know what went on. I really do want to know why there is push back on incident reporting. If you all actually read the guidelines published there is NO requirement for a near miss to be reported for a unit. There are near miss reporting requirements for some programs administered by councils. For the record, my mailstop is It is SUM 202. However, your unit is charted by your local council. NOT the national council. Reports go there.

 

As to motives please remember that "...Parents who entrust Scout leaders with their children justifiably expect them to return uninjured..." Does anyone here have a problem with that?

[RichardB]

Aw, c'mon folks, That last response by Richard B.? He's just messin' with ya now. He responded to criticism of a policy statement with....ANOTHER policy statement! Don't you guys see the humor in that?

Did you actually read the The BSA’s Commitment to Safety? Please enlighten me and teh forum as to what part of it does not work for you or in this case is a joke and funny?

[blw2]

Well, if anything, this discussion has motivated me to take my Webelos on an off-road bike ride rather than on a field trip to the newspaper office.

I always get a chuckle out of the term "near miss".

 

If it's nearly a miss, what is it?.... A Hit!

[Khaliela]

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

jblake47: I am left wondering if you actually bothered to read my post?

Is shooting road signs full of holes chivalrous? I don't think so. Is using your ATV to tear up recently restored habitat and destroying a waterfowl nesting area chivalrous? I'm still not buying it.

[packsaddle]

Aw, c'mon folks, That last response by Richard B.? He's just messin' with ya now. He responded to criticism of a policy statement with....ANOTHER policy statement! Don't you guys see the humor in that?

OMG! You're actually serious, aren't you!? OK, yes, I did read it. How else would I understand the joke you presented to us?

 

In response to someone throwing out an incident report form as evidence of 'prissyness' (for want of a better term), you responded with a couple more forms and a web page which states its purpose as follows:

 

"This chapter provides volunteers and professional staff guidance on documenting and reporting incidents, injuries, and illnesses that occur during Scouting activities."

 

And THEN you ask what is wrong with 'knowing' what is going on, as if those forms are all it takes for you to 'know' what is going on in the real world.

 

You had just responded to ridicule of your forms by submitting more forms and a guidance page that tells us we ought to use those forms. What the heck kind of response is THAT!? Do you not understand the level of derision that kind of bureaucratic (not to mention patronizing) attitude is going to bring in response? Really? You don't get this? That IS the humorous part, from my view. You actually take yourself this seriously that you think waving a form in front of us is going to make us cower in the shadow of your greatness. Gad! The best thing you and the guys in Irving can do to try to recover some of your dignity and some of my respect is just stop talking. And please, stop waving those forms at us.

[Stosh]

This thread has irritated me since it started, there has been a lot of guessing about why scouts is becoming prissy and I have two points on the matter:

 

1) MONEY!! Your council and national want dues $; to do that they need to increase membership and retain already enrolled members. That means they are recruiting and keeping kids that don't want squat to do with the outdoors.

 

2) MANLY??? Seriously???? We are a “prissy†troop according to the local Scouters. Some of our boys even shave their legs, its a great joke while on an outing to see how has smoother legs, them or me (there are times with they have won!)

 

Our “prissy†troop did a 30 mile backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon in March, but that wasn't considered “manly†because we didn't go 50 miles. Our “prissy†troop is having their 50 miler in July, but it isn't manly either because we are canoeing, not backpacking. The boys in our “prissy†troop who shave their legs are either on the swim team or cyclist; one pair and their father even complete all 410 miles of the GOBA (Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure) every summer. Our “prissy†boys can cook their own meals and don't need mommy to do it for them. And yes, we are fastidious about uniforming!

 

So what do the “manly†troops in our area do??? They attend summer camp and Fall Camp O'ree; occasionally Klondike, but outside of that, not much. When they camp they show up with ATV's so their boys won't actually have to walk anywhere; they can't run a camp stove, dutch oven, or cook over an open flame; and I kid you not, I've seen Scout Masters show up at Camp O'ree with boxes of Pizza for dinner because cooking is women work. Two years ago my mom fined one of the “manly†troops $17,000 for destruction of property and failure to comply with park rules and regulations while camping at a CORP of Engineers property. These guys show up with shirts unbuttoned, tails untucked, and basically look like crap.

 

I think we need to redefine “manly.†There is no reason your Scout Uniform shouldn't be given the same care as a military uniform. Failure to comply with local, state, or federal rules and regulations is never "manly;" At best its ignorant, but more likely its just belligerent!

If one were to read carefully my post, I find no mention of shooting roadsigns, destructive use of an ATV, etc. As a matter of fact, if one were to read carefully, they would see that no where do the word redneck referenced or alluded to anywhere. If the reference to "holding doors for certain people" means yelling at one's woman "that we'za gonna ta town, so hop in the pickup." then I guess I'm guilty and one has cause not to buy into the term chivalry. If not, it would be interesting to know what agenda the reader is filtering the comment through. The introductory few paragraphs of Scouting for Boys First Edition might be of assistance in understanding where I'm coming from.

[Stosh]

Today' date=' video games and computers are such a massive world of adventure to explore, the scouts simply have nothing to offer to compete. Call of Duty is more interesting than scouting. It's better. It isn't real, which is a problem (is it?), but it is more fun for most kids.[/quote']

 

Many parents are happy to let their kids stay inside and play video games then they don't have to worry about them getting kidnapped while walking to the corner store or hit by a car while riding their bikes or molested while on an outing with a youth group, etc.

So where are all the damsels to be rescued or dragons to be slain? Damsels have made it quite clear they don't need rescuing and it's too dangerous to go after dragons. Might as well stay home in the basement and fight them in the virtual worlds. It's probably the closest thing they will ever get to in their lifetime.