Young Siblings & Day Camp

[Twocubdad]

It's been a while since I was a DL, but one must always beg the question of all these "tots" hanging around CS camp. What insurance does not have to cover any injuries sustained by non-registered participants? Wouldn't it be better served to have these "tots" involved in day-care where there's appropriate facilities to handle their needs?

 

Now I don't want to be perceived as a hard-nosed Grinch, but one would think that the resources drawn away from the BSA program to accommodate non-BSA people would not be a good thing. Next thing one will need a "program" to handle all the helicopter parents that want to tag along... Oh, never mind, that's "Family Camp". I don't know about boys today, but when I went off on a scouting adventure, I did not want my younger brothers tagging along and neither did I want my parents anywhere nearby.

 

By the way, will all these future CS "tots" expect TV and cartoons all day long when they finally reach the age of Cubbing? I'm thinking there's a lot going on here that sets some serious problems down the road for the program.

Camp standards require non BSA members be covered by supplemental insurance which costs about $1 each. The purpose of the tot lots IS to provide day care for the non Scout children of the volunteers. Not many folks can afford to pay several hundred dollars per child to volunteer for at day camp.

[Twocubdad]

There is no problem out there that can't be solved. If all the volunteers pitched in a few bucks to hire someone to watch their kids, the problem would be solved. Yes, there are those who can't afford to toss in a couple of bucks, but if the others did, that person could "afford" to do the child care. Heck if 4 parents needed day-care services, one could sit this event out and volunteer day-care instead of helping directly with the program. Take turns and there would always be someone to do the day-care bit.

 

If there are 5 or 6 really qualified people leading the program, all better than me, I'd roll up my sleeves and spend the day doing the day-care for them for the sake of the boys and their program and I would do it as my Good Turn. And if I had the responsibility of looking after kids, I wouldn't be doing it in the woods where the job would be that much more difficult, I'd have the parents drop off the kids at my house, I could have plenty for the kids to do and I wouldn't have to worry about sending out a search party for one of them that wandered off. The goal would be take care of the kids and not interrupt the program their parents are volunteering to provide.

I think you're missing the cooperative nature of the program, Stosh. This IS the parents chipping in. If, as a camp director, I can gain 10 volunteers by assigning a couple of them to watch the children of the other 8, I count that as a net increase of 8 volunteers, not the loss of 2.

[Jeffrey H]

Dear KDD:

 

Re: the BSA policy about not requiring parents to help. I asked our district exec this by email earlier in the spring based on my contact with American Heritage Girls for my daughter, which does have a policy that every parent volunteer in some way. So does our church music group, and my kids' AWANA class. This was his reply:

 

"BSA does not require, or even ask, that parents commit a certain amount of volunteer time as a condition of their Scout joining the pack. I can easily see why that’s the case. Consider households where, because of family or work situations, parents simply cannot volunteer – that would mean their boys would be excluded from Scouts.

 

It’s also worth noting that BSA does not even accept all parents who do volunteer – it’s rare, of course, but that’s why the background checks are conducted. All volunteers with the Pack must be registered leaders, and all must take Youth Protection Training."

 

In other conversations, the general tone has been that our BSA Council is all about signing boys up. They truly don't seem to care if we have enough parents to put on a quality program, or if the small contingent of parents running our pack is totally burned out. The attitude seems to be: "all boys have a right to enjoy Scouting". It doesn't seem to matter if the parents drop and run, complain constantly, bounce checks, whatever.

 

I actually had one parent this year get mad at me as treasurer because I wouldn't accept a second check from her after she had failed to reimburse the pack for a prior bounced check for popcorn nor had she paid her dues. This was in March, after she always had time to waste my time at Scout events listening to her sob stories. Like I have time for this. I'm there to be with my son, lady, not listen to excuse after excuse from you, and certainly not to hear her anger when I couldn't take another check from her.

 

Our pack is a mess. The standard procedure all year has been to plan events, beg for volunteers 1-2 weeks before the event, not get any volunteers, and then kick the responsibility to one of the very few of us already volunteering so that we don't disappoint the kids. I volunteered to be treasurer only, but I've been caught up in almost every event we've done. Not because I have time or because I want to, but out of guilt. As a result, I have firmly told the pack leaders that for the upcoming year, I am webmaster only. Absolutely nothing else.

 

I volunteer on a total of five programs between school and church in which my kids are involved. BSA doesn't seem to get that. Their attitude is that volunteers are there no matter when, no matter what, for whatever the BSA and the boys need. No thanks.

 

I have never heard our pack leaders come out and even ask the dozens of parents that do absolutely nothing to volunteer their time. And yet, they will keep coming back to the same 5 or 6 people over and over and over again because we're all suckers, apparently. That's lazy leadership.

 

Our pack leader had the nerve to ask "someone" in our little pack committee to organize a pack activity promoting Earth Day and recycling, complete with materials, in April on two days notice. I didn't even bother to respond to the email. And then he complained when no one stepped up. Finally, our Bear den leader, who has four kids of her own, dropped everything, put together an activity with materials and led it herself. God Bless her, but I'm just sick of enabling our pack leaders this way.

 

The CM and CC started the pack so they could do great things with their kids. And they do. All the fun stuff like Pinewood, etc. While the 3-4 other leaders (almost all moms with small kids) do everything else. I'm tired of enabling these two. Maybe by putting a very firm boundary on my time this upcoming year, they will be forced to either insist that the other dozens of do-nothing parents step up, or do more themselves.

 

As an adult, I hate Scouting. There is no joy in it at all. I have spent practically no time with my son this year. During all events, I am stuck off at a table somewhere accepting payments, writing receipts, and trying to explain activities and signups to everyone. I barely saw my son's car race. The way they handle volunteering totally eliminates any opportunity to enjoy Scouting with my son.

 

So next year, I will be webmaster, and that's it. Whenever anyone has questions, payments, forms to hand in, whatever, I'm just going to smile and send them over to our CM. :-)

 

So, KDD, as much as I wish the BSA would support a policy like other groups use of requiring parents to volunteer, the BSA is evidently against it. I hope you work things out with your pack.

 

GeorgiaMom

You are correct in your decision to step aside and do less. You are burned-out and frustrated. In every Pack, like many volunteer organizations, there is the 80-20 rule: 20% of the people do 80% of the work. That's the way it is. Be grateful to those that step-up and don't worry about those that don't do anything. Quite frankly, some of the parents are better off not helping out - Trust me on that one. As Cubmaster, I don't want some parents at events because they do nothing but complain. I would rather have a few "happy" volunteers than a bunch of grumpy warm bodies hanging around. I agree 100% with "jblake" that events should be cancelled if volunteers don't step-up. I've done it several times. Cancelling is not the end of the world and it tends to get the message across that the "20%" are indeed volunteers and we can't do it all.

[ScoutNut]

Dear KDD:

 

Re: the BSA policy about not requiring parents to help. I asked our district exec this by email earlier in the spring based on my contact with American Heritage Girls for my daughter, which does have a policy that every parent volunteer in some way. So does our church music group, and my kids' AWANA class. This was his reply:

 

"BSA does not require, or even ask, that parents commit a certain amount of volunteer time as a condition of their Scout joining the pack. I can easily see why that’s the case. Consider households where, because of family or work situations, parents simply cannot volunteer – that would mean their boys would be excluded from Scouts.

 

It’s also worth noting that BSA does not even accept all parents who do volunteer – it’s rare, of course, but that’s why the background checks are conducted. All volunteers with the Pack must be registered leaders, and all must take Youth Protection Training."

 

In other conversations, the general tone has been that our BSA Council is all about signing boys up. They truly don't seem to care if we have enough parents to put on a quality program, or if the small contingent of parents running our pack is totally burned out. The attitude seems to be: "all boys have a right to enjoy Scouting". It doesn't seem to matter if the parents drop and run, complain constantly, bounce checks, whatever.

 

I actually had one parent this year get mad at me as treasurer because I wouldn't accept a second check from her after she had failed to reimburse the pack for a prior bounced check for popcorn nor had she paid her dues. This was in March, after she always had time to waste my time at Scout events listening to her sob stories. Like I have time for this. I'm there to be with my son, lady, not listen to excuse after excuse from you, and certainly not to hear her anger when I couldn't take another check from her.

 

Our pack is a mess. The standard procedure all year has been to plan events, beg for volunteers 1-2 weeks before the event, not get any volunteers, and then kick the responsibility to one of the very few of us already volunteering so that we don't disappoint the kids. I volunteered to be treasurer only, but I've been caught up in almost every event we've done. Not because I have time or because I want to, but out of guilt. As a result, I have firmly told the pack leaders that for the upcoming year, I am webmaster only. Absolutely nothing else.

 

I volunteer on a total of five programs between school and church in which my kids are involved. BSA doesn't seem to get that. Their attitude is that volunteers are there no matter when, no matter what, for whatever the BSA and the boys need. No thanks.

 

I have never heard our pack leaders come out and even ask the dozens of parents that do absolutely nothing to volunteer their time. And yet, they will keep coming back to the same 5 or 6 people over and over and over again because we're all suckers, apparently. That's lazy leadership.

 

Our pack leader had the nerve to ask "someone" in our little pack committee to organize a pack activity promoting Earth Day and recycling, complete with materials, in April on two days notice. I didn't even bother to respond to the email. And then he complained when no one stepped up. Finally, our Bear den leader, who has four kids of her own, dropped everything, put together an activity with materials and led it herself. God Bless her, but I'm just sick of enabling our pack leaders this way.

 

The CM and CC started the pack so they could do great things with their kids. And they do. All the fun stuff like Pinewood, etc. While the 3-4 other leaders (almost all moms with small kids) do everything else. I'm tired of enabling these two. Maybe by putting a very firm boundary on my time this upcoming year, they will be forced to either insist that the other dozens of do-nothing parents step up, or do more themselves.

 

As an adult, I hate Scouting. There is no joy in it at all. I have spent practically no time with my son this year. During all events, I am stuck off at a table somewhere accepting payments, writing receipts, and trying to explain activities and signups to everyone. I barely saw my son's car race. The way they handle volunteering totally eliminates any opportunity to enjoy Scouting with my son.

 

So next year, I will be webmaster, and that's it. Whenever anyone has questions, payments, forms to hand in, whatever, I'm just going to smile and send them over to our CM. :-)

 

So, KDD, as much as I wish the BSA would support a policy like other groups use of requiring parents to volunteer, the BSA is evidently against it. I hope you work things out with your pack.

 

GeorgiaMom

"we need to set LDS aside because they have special status with the BSA."

 

No, they don't really. They simply more fully utilize the Charter Organization concept than anyone else.

 

From the BSA Charter Agreement -

"The chartered organization agrees to

• Conduct the Scouting program according to its OWN POLICIES AND GUIDELINES as well as those of the Boy Scouts of America

 

 

"We can "set the expectation" that they participate, and highly encourage them to participate, but when push comes to shove we can not drop them for that reason alone. "

 

This is inaccurate. A Charter Organization OWNS ITS SCOUTING UNITS. They can drop any of their unit members (adult or youth) at any time, for any (or no) reason at all. The local BSA Council can NOT force a Charter Organization to accept, or keep any member.

 

The signature of the Unit Leader is required on any Youth Application. The signature of the Committee Chair, along with the signature of the Charter Organization Head, or Representative, is required on any Adult Application before it can even be sent into the local council.

 

From The Chartered Organization Representative (BSA # 33118) -

"THE UNITS BELONG TO YOUR ORGANIZATION"

"Your organization has the Scouting program on charter from the Boy Scouts of America, but the Scouting units and their leaders belong to your organization and are part of its ‘‘family.’’ It is most important that this relationship be understood. The BSA local council exists only to support your organization and to help it be successful."