Young Siblings & Day Camp

[kari_cardi]

jblake, I don't understand your position. The volunteers are not expecting or requiring the camps to provide day care. The camps are providing day care for siblings to allow more parents to volunteer, to increase the already limited pool of potential volunteers. My email Inbox has been full of pleas for day and twilight camp volunteers in the last month or so. Staffing day/twilight camp is a problem.

 

When my husband started volunteering with the pack and for camps, etc., with our oldest son, our younger sons were home with me. When more volunteers were needed, I stepped up but my youngest son came along. It was simply not possible financially for both of us to serve as volunteers if we had to pay for day care.

 

Maybe it is a local culture thing? I know that when I was young, my mother ran the kid's group for our GS day camp, that was some 30 years ago. I don't know of a day/twilight camp in my area that doesn't run some version of a Tot Lot. It's covered as part of National Camp Director training so it must be pretty common.

[Stosh]

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

[Faith]

I can really only reply for myself there, as I was the one that ended up volunteering to do it after asked, since no one else would (and my son was one of the few in there.) I talked one mom into helping me the first day (she's registered and was allowed, we grew up together and I figured if anyone would lend a hand, it would be her.) She was supposed to be over snacks but we did not need 4 people over that. The second mom that helped me was assisting in crafts but since her babysitter bailed on her Wednesday on, she said she'd help out since the 'majority' coming now would be her kids (both of these instances occurred after my original post.) I'd love for us to be able to hire someone to watch them so we could focus solely on other areas but I doubt I'll ever see that happen.

[Stosh]

There is no problem out there that can't be solved. If all the volunteers pitched in a few bucks to hire someone to watch their kids, the problem would be solved. Yes, there are those who can't afford to toss in a couple of bucks, but if the others did, that person could "afford" to do the child care. Heck if 4 parents needed day-care services, one could sit this event out and volunteer day-care instead of helping directly with the program. Take turns and there would always be someone to do the day-care bit.

 

If there are 5 or 6 really qualified people leading the program, all better than me, I'd roll up my sleeves and spend the day doing the day-care for them for the sake of the boys and their program and I would do it as my Good Turn. And if I had the responsibility of looking after kids, I wouldn't be doing it in the woods where the job would be that much more difficult, I'd have the parents drop off the kids at my house, I could have plenty for the kids to do and I wouldn't have to worry about sending out a search party for one of them that wandered off. The goal would be take care of the kids and not interrupt the program their parents are volunteering to provide.

[Faith]

Your idea isn't bad at all (and since we went almost to that extent minus being elsewhere, its doable.) I personally could not have brought that many kids to my house due to room and current renovations being done but if another parent was willing and able to accommodate (and the BSA allowed it without voiding the insurance that covers them) its feasible. We'd have to make sure to have two parents that could be together at all times wherever the location may be and we'd have to check in on the inspection procedures for that (yes, every parent who 'utilized' tot lot had to pay a small fee so if that continued, I assume we'd have to have our tot lot, no matter on location, inspected again.) We'd also have to make sure the parents agreed to their youngest ones going off to a volunteer's house. At daycare, the people who do it are certified to take care of children, so in the end if it came down to it, it wouldn't be called tot lot anymore and we'd basically just have to find someone to sit all of them during that time that wasn't affiliated with BSA (unless someone certified in child care was a volunteer - none of which we had this year.) All depends on who is in it next year, how many need to be watched, etc. For now, I'm just thankful our tots in no way, shape or form disrupted the program itself, everyone had a blast, crappy weather and all

[Pack18Alex]

I just did two weeks across two camps (our District and a neighboring one). One program had a tot lot (run by a Girl Scout Volunteer), the other just had the volunteers bring their other children around. The tot lot approach was better, the girls did arts and crafts primarily, joined us for lunch, and during lunch/den time, they went over and did Archery/Slingshots/etc. The second time, they tagged along with me, got chances to do stuff (after the boys of course), and generally had a blast.

 

If you told me I had to pay for child care for those two weeks for my other children so I could volunteer here, then I would have had to decline and gone to the office. It's hard to take off work plus pay for child care to be a volunteer... I think my wife would kill me. Instead, I paid for my son to attend, went as Den Leader, and my son, daughters, myself, and everyone in my den had a great time.

 

I think that making the effort to get a volunteer for a Tot Lot/Sibling Den should be a high priority. I pay my own way, I pay my son's way, and I gave up a few weeks of my life to watch other kids for free. Not sure why looking for a volunteer to watch the other volunteers children is unreasonable.

 

In planning some training programs, getting a volunteer or two to provide two deep leadership so kids can do sports/crafts seems reasonable to me. I invest a ton of my time to making this a strong program, in addition to paying my own way as a participant. I paid for a babysitter to attend Roundtable once, doing so on a regular basis would be crazy unless the Pack is paying for it.

 

Nobody paid for my undivided attention. They paid for a great camp experience, and they got it.

[jc2008]

Tot lot needs to be there so that parents can volunteer. With our tot lot the parents had to bring in a box of capri suns and enough snacks for 12. Each parent sending a kid to tot lot that is.

 

The most we had in tot lot this year was about 6 so it was just one mom and a girl scout in there helping with the kids. Our day camp runs around 120 cub scouts so that was way little in the tot lot for the amount of kids we had at the day camp. Also, the mom running it was about 7 months pregnant. So running the tot lot was one of the only volunteer duties she could have as it was WAY too hot to let her run around outside safely. Our tot lot is in a room with an a/c.

 

Our camp requires every cub scout attending the camp to have a parent volunteer for at least one day. Its mandatory. So it gave the expecting mom something she could contribute while not getting overheated. We had another 8 month pregnant mom come in for one day and she worked over in tot lot as well for the day.

[King Ding Dong]

There is no problem out there that can't be solved. If all the volunteers pitched in a few bucks to hire someone to watch their kids, the problem would be solved. Yes, there are those who can't afford to toss in a couple of bucks, but if the others did, that person could "afford" to do the child care. Heck if 4 parents needed day-care services, one could sit this event out and volunteer day-care instead of helping directly with the program. Take turns and there would always be someone to do the day-care bit.

 

If there are 5 or 6 really qualified people leading the program, all better than me, I'd roll up my sleeves and spend the day doing the day-care for them for the sake of the boys and their program and I would do it as my Good Turn. And if I had the responsibility of looking after kids, I wouldn't be doing it in the woods where the job would be that much more difficult, I'd have the parents drop off the kids at my house, I could have plenty for the kids to do and I wouldn't have to worry about sending out a search party for one of them that wandered off. The goal would be take care of the kids and not interrupt the program their parents are volunteering to provide.

When was the last time you hired a babysitter ? I can't speak for the whole country but in two different cities in the fly over states it starts at $8.00 per hour for one child and $2.00 an hour for EACH extra child. It is insane. Military friends have described worse situations on the coasts. It was a $1.00 when I was a kid. I am talking about 12-16 year old girls. After 16 they can't be botherd with it. We stopped going out until we moved close to family. It costs $40 just to walk out the door for a few hours and then what are going to do ? You don't have any money left over.

 

A "few bucks" doesn't cut it.

[GeorgiaMom]

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

 

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

 

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

 

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

 

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

 

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

 

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

 

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

 

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

 

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

 

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

 

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

 

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

 

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

 

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

 

GeorgiaMomma

[Stosh]

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

 

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

 

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

 

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

 

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

 

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

 

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

 

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

 

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

 

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

 

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

 

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

 

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

 

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

 

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

 

GeorgiaMomma

I have no problem with any of your concerns. In today's society there are a ton of considerations that have to be factored in to any activity one decides to do. Yet there are a lot of single parents, me included, that need to pay for child-care either because they work or because they are "volunteering". I have had to take a pass on volunteering for something because of my family responsibilities just like anyone else.

 

My Grinch attitude comes from the fact that certain "requirements" become mandatory in order for "volunteering" can happen. If an event has day-care provided for the volunteers, not a problem, but if that day-care option falls apart and it then burdens the activity, then yes, I have a problem with that. What originally was a special program for young boys, turns into a special program for young boys and anyone else who hasn't got a place to be, then the whole focus changes. If volunteers volunteer to help the volunteers, not a problem. There are societal factors that need to be considered.

 

The only part that causes me concern is when the "perk" becomes a requirement, or the lack of perk interferes with the planned program.

 

The next thread one is going to see here is how does one handle a nursing SM at a camporee. Don't get me wrong. My brothers were both "out camping" weeks after they were born, but it wasn't in a BSA sponsored program. I have also taken my children on major scout-like activities (BWCA) with other scouters, who also brought their children, but it was a unanimous decision by all participants BEFORE we even began planning the trip.

 

The reason this forum fills up with threads like these is because the situation just isn't working out very well. It's up to forum members to assist in resolving some of these concerns, not making problems. If the planned day-care volunteer had shown up as expected, this thread would never have appeared on the forum. I'm not complaining about the people who are volunteering, I'm drawing concern about the coordination of the event and all the expectations people have regarding it. I have worked for 40+ years with volunteers in a wide variety of different settings, including BSA, and have always appreciated what one would term a volunteer.

[Faith]

I have to say this thread *would* have appeared, no matter what, if I was designated anywhere near the tot lot (as an assistant, supervisor or otherwise.) I didn't post in with the intent of complaining about my position (reading my first post, yes, I could have worded that a lot better.) I posted for suggestions (whatever worked elsewhere, as far as tot lot activities go, I was interested in.) If you look at my other threads I've posted since joining here, all of them are asking for suggestions/input. My approach to quite a few things I'm new at are to see what works for others and come up with something (my ideas + theirs) that I think will work for us as well. Yes, there is plenty I do without asking here. But as someone who does online work for other forums, etc., I know the positive influence a forum and its members can have on assisting someone in a particular area. So I utilize that here for myself whenever possible (whether it be archery targets, tot lot, den doodles, etc.)

 

There was no 'planned day-care volunteer' - our CM asked quite a few people, they turned it down (most of those ended up not helping out at all as volunteers.) She reached out to me and me trying to help best I can, I stepped up. The lady who was over it for the past 2-3 years is no longer with the program (nor is her son.) In the end, it all worked out well and my older son had a blast. Thankfully his little brother had no influence whatsoever on his first district camp

[King Ding Dong]

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

 

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

 

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

 

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

 

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

 

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

 

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

 

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

 

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

 

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

 

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

 

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

 

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

 

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

 

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

 

GeorgiaMomma

I am interested in this BSA policy of not requiring parents to volunteer. Can anyone point to it ? Our committee is getting ready to formulate our plans for next year. It is our opinion that even a single mom can do SOMETHING. I am at the point that either the parents step up and handle some things like popcorn kernel and treasurer or scouts is not for them or this pack is not for me.

[King Ding Dong]

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

 

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

 

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

 

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

 

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

 

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

 

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

 

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

 

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

 

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

 

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

 

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

 

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

 

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

 

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

 

GeorgiaMomma

So jblake are implying that there is something wrong with a mother feeding her child when it is hungry ?

 

Cub scouts is a family program, Boy Scouts is not. So an sibling has no place at a camporee and a female SM should step aside temporarily if she needs to care for an infant. I see no problem at Cub activities.

[Stosh]

I have to say this thread *would* have appeared, no matter what, if I was designated anywhere near the tot lot (as an assistant, supervisor or otherwise.) I didn't post in with the intent of complaining about my position (reading my first post, yes, I could have worded that a lot better.) I posted for suggestions (whatever worked elsewhere, as far as tot lot activities go, I was interested in.) If you look at my other threads I've posted since joining here, all of them are asking for suggestions/input. My approach to quite a few things I'm new at are to see what works for others and come up with something (my ideas + theirs) that I think will work for us as well. Yes, there is plenty I do without asking here. But as someone who does online work for other forums, etc., I know the positive influence a forum and its members can have on assisting someone in a particular area. So I utilize that here for myself whenever possible (whether it be archery targets, tot lot, den doodles, etc.)

 

There was no 'planned day-care volunteer' - our CM asked quite a few people, they turned it down (most of those ended up not helping out at all as volunteers.) She reached out to me and me trying to help best I can, I stepped up. The lady who was over it for the past 2-3 years is no longer with the program (nor is her son.) In the end, it all worked out well and my older son had a blast. Thankfully his little brother had no influence whatsoever on his first district camp

Been there done that. However, when I was faced with a similar problem, i.e. lack of volunteers, I simply cancelled the activity. How can one provide a program when no one shows up to do it?

 

My Ex was asked to be the head of the Ladies group at church. She asked me what she should do for activities. I set up a program so that all 12 events (1/month) had a sign-up sheet. Activity Chair, Program Chair, Decoration/Luncheon Chair and a dollar amount of it's cost. Unless everything was filled in the activity would be cancelled. She posted it for Nov/Dec and collected up the signup/pledge sheets. August didn't have enough volunteers and so she threw away the sheet. She put together the annual booklet for the ladies and when they noticed there was only 11 events scheduled they asked why. She told them. Then an ad hoc group of angry ladies got together and planned out the August event on their own. Had they done that a month earlier there wouldn't have been any problem.

 

Well they never asked her to do that again and at no time before or after was the program all spelled out with all expectations ready to go at the first of the year. I guess they enjoyed the lack of planning kind of approach.

 

But if the people don't show, what can you do? Not much, but to cobble together something at the last minute and beg people to volunteer is probably not the best way to handle things.

 

I'm saying, Be Prepared or endure the hassles. The choice is always there. If one is not prepared, hopefully they have a planned Plan B, or best yet, cancel and reschedule when one has the resources to pull it off properly. Remember you are relying on volunteers, not paid people whose job it is to show up no matter what.

[Stosh]

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

 

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

 

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

 

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

 

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

 

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

 

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

 

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

 

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

 

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

 

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

 

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

 

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

 

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

 

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

 

GeorgiaMomma

Required to volunteer? One needs to rethink the definition of volunteer.

 

As I mentioned in comments to Faith, when it comes to dealing with volunteers, it is imperative to have volunteers lined up well before the event. If not enough people show up, then cancel. The rebound on that issue is a lot of angry parents who are angry because they realize that they are really needed to make things go in the unit. Once they come to that conclusion, they tend to voluntarily volunteer.

 

And to the other issue. What does YPT say about nursing SM who has gone off leaving a gap in 2-deep leadership and where's the baby when she's not nursing. Whole Pandora box here.