my boy and completing achievements

[christineka]

christineka,

 

Why do you think that it would not be beneficial for your son to get up in front of his den, show them his rock collection, tell them about it, show off what he learned? Being comfortable talking in front of a group is a learned and practiced skill. Starting to do this at a young age and continued doing so with every opportunity, (whether required or voluntary) will benefit him in high school, college, and life.

 

In this case- because he's already earned and been awarded the activity badge that the belt loop was required for- and we have no den meetings before the next pack meeting. If she had come up with this requirement before today, I would have made my son do the extra made-up requirements. I've read the webelos' book multiple times now. There are many more requirements that actually say the boy has to tell his den about it. In fact, after the cub scouts visited a museum, I mentioned to the committee chair that if the boys discussed what they learned about at the museum, that they would pass of a requirement for geology, but the committee chair did not start that discussion.

 

 

Practicing keeping records aka the chart for home chores for 2 weeks - why is it such a big deal to you? Doing a chore and keeping record of it is within the ability of a 10 YO.

 

It's a big deal because he already did the lawn care for two weeks. Chores isn't required for Handyman- it's required for citizenship (which he completed with a chore chart) and again for Family Member (which he will start soon, since it takes 2 months) I don't see a problem with making a chore chart. I see a problem with making a chore chart for the wrong requirement!

 

I'll be frank, and say that based on the attitude that you present in your posts, I would not want your son to cross over in to any scout troop that I was involved in. If you think that a committee member that wants your son to develop life skills is a "dictator", and a "spy", and that awards are more important than skills, then I think your perspective is skewed. Skills will help your son in life. pins, belt loops, patches, awards, trophies, will not do so in and of themselves. They will only help him if they provide incentive to try a harder and learn and do more than he otherwise would have. To give awards for minimal effort and legalistic arguing may make you and your son feel good in the present, but if you think they do a whit for his future, you are mistaken. I recognize that it is likely to be mutual - that you would not want your son to be a part of a unit that I would be part of, because I want boys to be focused on adventure in the outdoors, and not on the awards for the awards sake.

 

You don't know this committee member. She is takes on the role of dictator. She has also been attending our bear and wolf meetings for the sole purpose of making sure we did what she dictated- or else we would endure her wrath. (Despite the fact that her son is a member of another pack and has completed everything that can be completed without a parent.)

 

I am offended that you would think I would skimp on making my son complete his requirements. His webelos' leader handed him packets to complete for Citizenship and Fitness and told me he simply needed to fill them out and he would earn those badges. I then checked the Webelos' book. The two did not mesh. I made my son recite the Pledge of Allegiance and then tell me in his own words what it meant. The worksheet, where he had to choose one of two words that closely matched the underlined word, imo did not meet the requirement. The packet also did not contain a service project. I made my son actually come up with and do a service project- unlike all the boys, who were awarded Citizenship without having to do the service project (for the Citizenship pin, which was required.) At camp, my son did not complete all of the requirements that the paper stated he would complete. We came home and I made him do them completely. He had to show what to do in various emergency and first aid situation- not just sit in the group, while they collectively discussed what to do. And there's more. I did not have to make my son do the complete requirements. The other boys did not, yet they earned the badges anyway.

[Twocubdad]

Mrs. Ka -- Venividi's observations are on target. I hope you will take his comments in the spirit in which he offers them and reconsider your attitude toward the leadership in your son's pack. The leaders may be off base, they may be asking more of your son because they think he can do more or they may just be doing the best they can. But give them the benefit of the doubt. The time and effort they devote to your son and the program entitles them to that. Secondly, consider what your son is learning from this -- that sometimes you have a "tough boss" and need to grit your teeth and go the extra mile? Or that he can count on his mother to plow the ground in front of him?

 

Thanks, V. I thought I was going to have to be "that guy" again, but you said it well.

[christineka]

My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

[King Ding Dong]

My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

Well sounds like she is acting Webelos Den Leader as your is unavailable. If this person will not listen to facts and reason you need to talk to the committee chairman and the COR.

 

While I agree with others that there seems to be a focus on the awards and not the experience here, If he earned them he should get them. Teaching him to bend over and take it from a nut case is not the message I would want to teach my son. I would help him arm himself with the facts and stand up to this BULLY.

[eaglewolfdad]

My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

Christineka, your question about the committee person is the key here. You have stated that your Webelos den leader signed off on the Geology belt loop weeks ago. This is the only requirement needed. Is the committee person that you mentioned the advancement chair? They are responsible for recording the achievements and buying the awards, nothing more. They do not have any leadership role in the pack.

As a Cub master I would have a real problem with this person rejecting the approval of the Den Leader. Your chain of command is Den Leader>Cub master>Committee Chair.

You are to be commended for having your son complete the Readyman requirements at home. I have witnessed far too many council or district Webelos weekends during which scouts earn activity badges for 45 minutes of work. Many scouts have a rude awakening when they cross over and learn that earning merit badges is difficult and are surprised and scared to learn that they know very little about scouting or scoutcraft skills. This is one of the major causes of poor retention rates in Scouts. Keep doing what your doing with a smile. I would take a parent like you in my Pack any day over a parent who either does not care or who is willing to let their child skate thru the process.

[dedkad]

My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

You've already admitted that the Webelos den leader is awarding badges without doing all the requirements. And it sounds like the Webelos den leader has temporarily turned over their duties to the Committee Member. Maybe the Committee Member has seen what has gone in the past and is making an effort to correct the situation, albeit a little too far to the other extreme.

[Twocubdad]

Yeah, you're probably right. Maintaining strict adherence to jurisdictional lines is the top priority in the proper function of a Webelos den. We must be vigilant that unauthorized committee members and ad hoc volunteers not improperly involve themselves in den operations. Our prime objective -- ensuring Scouts earning all 20 Webelos activity pins -- could be jeopardized.

 

Lawyer on!

[Polaris]

Why does he need all 20 activity pins......If memory serves....he only needs 11 to get his AOL.

 

I am in a non LDS unit and the boys typically join the troop in February of their first year in Webelos. We attend Webelos resident camp Aquanaut, Geologist, Forester and sportsman and a Webelos woods event, readyman, outdoorsman, scientist ....Den meetings handyman, Enginneer, artist, fitness and showman..........Super easy to finish the AOL in 9 months.

 

 

In reading the OP's other post I think her son is the webelo in the pack.

As I have the Webelos Handbook sitting on my desk to plan our year..............

 

8 total Activity Badges required for Webleos and AOL--

 

3 for Webelos Rank (Fitness, Citizen and one other)

5 for AOL (3 previous + Readyman, Outsdoorsman, one in Mental Skills, one in Technology + one other)

 

Yep. Super easy to finish early if scout attends summer camp.

[ScoutNut]

Just wondering - What is the EXACT BSA position held by the "Dictator"?

 

Did the "Dictator" state that the 2 week chore chart MUST be made up of "household" chores (cleaning kitchen counter)?

 

Bottom line - does the Webelos den leader, or your "Dictator", HAVE to accept only your word that your son has completed any Webelos requirements?

 

Short answer - NO.

 

Webelos is not Wolf, or Bear Cubs. Parents are no longer automatically allowed to sign off on any and all requirements. It is now the responsibility of the Webelos den leader to approve ALL WORK. The ONLY time a parent would be allowed to approve work done is if the Webelos den leader has given permission for parents to approve SPECIFIC requirements, and/or badges.

 

So, YES, if the den leader, or in your case, ACTING, or ASSISTANT den leader ("Dictator"), requests that your SON provide documentation that he has completed certain requirements, it is well within their right to do so.

 

Especially when you state your son did these requirements over one month ago, but they just started working on Handyman last week.

 

Stop trying to find a "work around". Have your SON make up a chart showing what he did in the yard each day for those two weeks. Then the person who was supervising his efforts (you or your husband) can sign the chart stating he did the work listed. End of problem.

 

You might have noticed I have stressed that your SON, do these things. Your son is no longer a Wolf, or Bear Cub. Webelos is a preparation for Boy Scouts, and as such the Scouts are expected to take charge of their own work. It is not up to YOU to provide any needed documentation, it is up to your SON.

 

As for the belt loop, ask your Webelos den leader to talk to the Cubmaster, or the Pack Advancement Chair, to have the belt loop presented to your son.

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

christineka,

 

I advise you to take a few moments and reflect on what you want your son to get out of scouting. Do you want him to learn and practice life skills that he can use, or are you looking to accumulate accolades, pins, awards, trophies...?

 

Why do you think that it would not be beneficial for your son to get up in front of his den, show them his rock collection, tell them about it, show off what he learned? Being comfortable talking in front of a group is a learned and practiced skill. Starting to do this at a young age and continued doing so with every opportunity, (whether required or voluntary) will benefit him in high school, college, and life.

 

Practicing keeping records aka the chart for home chores for 2 weeks - why is it such a big deal to you? Doing a chore and keeping record of it is within the ability of a 10 YO. The benefit of making a habit of doing so will pay off in life. Once your son gets to middle school and high school, keeping a list of what needs to be done and what he has done will keep him current and help him do his best in school I make a list every day of what I want to do and what I accomplished, at home, at work, and for my hobby. I get accomplish more that way, and spend less time in "time-sucking" activities such as watching tv, things people do when they don't have anything to do in order to pass the time.

 

I'll be frank, and say that based on the attitude that you present in your posts, I would not want your son to cross over in to any scout troop that I was involved in. If you think that a committee member that wants your son to develop life skills is a "dictator", and a "spy", and that awards are more important than skills, then I think your perspective is skewed. Skills will help your son in life. pins, belt loops, patches, awards, trophies, will not do so in and of themselves. They will only help him if they provide incentive to try a harder and learn and do more than he otherwise would have. To give awards for minimal effort and legalistic arguing may make you and your son feel good in the present, but if you think they do a whit for his future, you are mistaken. I recognize that it is likely to be mutual - that you would not want your son to be a part of a unit that I would be part of, because I want boys to be focused on adventure in the outdoors, and not on the awards for the awards sake.

I was thinking the same thing Veni.....

 

I hinted around what I thought in my first post.

[Basementdweller]

My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

EDW have you read the posts.....

 

she does not need applauded or praised.....she needs to stop and step back from her sons scouting experience.

 

Vendi hit the nail on the head with this one.

[walk in the woods]

Why does he need all 20 activity pins......If memory serves....he only needs 11 to get his AOL.

 

I am in a non LDS unit and the boys typically join the troop in February of their first year in Webelos. We attend Webelos resident camp Aquanaut, Geologist, Forester and sportsman and a Webelos woods event, readyman, outdoorsman, scientist ....Den meetings handyman, Enginneer, artist, fitness and showman..........Super easy to finish the AOL in 9 months.

 

 

In reading the OP's other post I think her son is the webelo in the pack.

Did the AOL requirement for being active for 6 months after completing the fourth grade go away?

[walk in the woods]

Why does he need all 20 activity pins......If memory serves....he only needs 11 to get his AOL.

 

I am in a non LDS unit and the boys typically join the troop in February of their first year in Webelos. We attend Webelos resident camp Aquanaut, Geologist, Forester and sportsman and a Webelos woods event, readyman, outdoorsman, scientist ....Den meetings handyman, Enginneer, artist, fitness and showman..........Super easy to finish the AOL in 9 months.

 

 

In reading the OP's other post I think her son is the webelo in the pack.

Did the AOL requirement for being active for 6 months after completing the fourth grade go away?

[walk in the woods]

Why does he need all 20 activity pins......If memory serves....he only needs 11 to get his AOL.

 

I am in a non LDS unit and the boys typically join the troop in February of their first year in Webelos. We attend Webelos resident camp Aquanaut, Geologist, Forester and sportsman and a Webelos woods event, readyman, outdoorsman, scientist ....Den meetings handyman, Enginneer, artist, fitness and showman..........Super easy to finish the AOL in 9 months.

 

 

In reading the OP's other post I think her son is the webelo in the pack.

Did the AOL requirement for being active for 6 months after completing the fourth grade go away?

[christineka]

We do not have an advancement chair. We have: Cub Master (lady), Committee Member, Webelos' den leader, Bears' Den leader (myself), and Wolves' leader and 7 boys: 3 Webelos, 2 Bears, 2 Wolves. The committee member has been in for about 8 months. So far, she has taken control of the committee, the scouts, yelled at everyone for not doing their proper duty, headed up a fundraiser, which included breaking both church and bsa rules- when called on it by the bishop, she still continued with the improper activities, lied so that we won a pack award (gold status, which we don't meet the requirements for), and now has decided that she must make sure the boys complete her version of the requirements before they can earn the award. The Webelos' leader is still here and still working with the boys. She's just accepting help from the committee member.

 

I do not see anything wrong with my son doing the work to earn all the activity badges. I've read all the requirements for everything multiple times now and it's not all easy stuff. He'll learn to become a better person by completing them.