Basementdweller Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Our scouts who attended NYLT in the past do NOT recommend the course. Their concerns were well considered, respectfully stated, and properly forwarded which also proved to be a waste of time.My son has another two years until he will be able to attend NYLT, but I am interested in your boy's concerns. Course material, staff or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Our scouts who attended NYLT in the past do NOT recommend the course. Their concerns were well considered, respectfully stated, and properly forwarded which also proved to be a waste of time.I don't know, but I'd say someone is doing something wrong. Our council does two course per year and we always fill both courses. I was the course director last fall, so I sit on our NYLT committee and see our feedback from participants. Literally, all of the feedback we have received from youth and adult volunteers has been positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. I was a Jambo ASM in 2005 and 2010. Regardless of a boy's service record in his troop or OA as well as whether or not he has been to NYLT......he is going to Jambo to have fun. Having to help herd 35 other scouts as young as 12 years old thru airports, tour buses, restaurants, etc and then make sure they are pulling their weight in camp has limited appeal. There are some who desire it and will rise to the occasion, but there will be more who look at it as a vacation and fun time. Right, wrong or indifferent, that is just the truth of the matter. Judging the value of NYLT by who will step up to Jambo leadership and forego the fun is a little short sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Our scouts who attended NYLT in the past do NOT recommend the course. Their concerns were well considered, respectfully stated, and properly forwarded which also proved to be a waste of time.Course material which the staff blindly followed. Let the buyer ($300+) beware. Check with others who have recently taken your council course and see if it addresses scout leadership needs. Ask the course director, if you could review the course notes beforehand. In our case, it was a thick binder full out outlines and handouts for hours of classroom of the basics of running meetings, MBA theory, games, songs, and HR techniques, no program and activity planning for a scout-run troop, no outdoor leadership training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. "Judging the value of NYLT by who will step up to Jambo leadership and forego the fun is a little short sighted." So much for servant leadership taught at NYLT? I think BD has a valid concern. Another $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. As I said, some will desire it and rise to the occasion and some won't. Servant leadership doesn't mean a doormat. It's a choice. I don't know any scouters.....even among the most dedicated....who will do any and everything requested of them. We all have boundaries and boys are no different. Do you really want a boy as your Jambo SPL who doesn't want the job? Do you think he'll be good at it? Do you think he should accept the position simply based on the fact that he attended a training course that teaches servant leadership? Do you think he "gets it" just because he attended and was exposed to it? I've worked with a good number of boys on camp staff, training staff, the troop, the OA chapter and the OA lodge and the only constant I've noticed is that you never get what you expect. Some that you see a ton of potential in turn out disappointing. Others that you think wouldn't do a good job will blow your socks off. Expecting boys to take a job just because it needs filling and they have been to NYLT and therefore SHOULD do it is going about it the wrong way. It will probably take building a relationship with them and doing some mentoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. That is not the scouting or leadership that I know. In the patrol method, scouts learn the jobs that need to be done and take turns doing the job themselves or helping their teammates do the job. No one sits on their duff and gets a free ride! Leaders step up to fill the need whether they are good at it or not. Most of us have done and are doing a variety of necessary jobs that we are neither good at nor want to do, but we do our best. My scouts have learned what we know, if no one leads a scout activity, there is no scout activity. Another $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. Yes, some will desire it and some will rise to the occasion. For every kid that does step up and take that leadership position so the scouting activity can occur, there are more that didn't step up to it. NYLT exposes a youth to the concepts and gives them practical application during the course. Saying "so much for servant leadership taught at NYLT" is still short sighted. It isn't a magic bullet that transforms every kid that walks thru the door. We hope it changes their life, but it is largely up to them what they do with what they are taught. If you have no one wanting to step up to be Jambo SPL, then it is time to select those you think would be best and sit down with them and have a one on one of why you need them on your leadership team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. While I'm not familiar with the curriculum of NYLT, I do know that most of the boys I have talked to say it wasn't very helpful and all of them said it wasn't worth the money. With that kind of track record, I have become suspicious of the program. While many adults think it's great and promote it, why then aren't the kids who have taken it promoting it as well. Instead you have a bunch of graduates that won't step up and apply their training. There's a root cause of the problem that no one is addressing or even seeking. We can banter around management styles, servant leadership, and all kinds of neatsy cool phrases, but how many of them have actual track records in troops or other scouting activities? From my perspective, little if none. I can take hundreds of kids out of an adult led program, run them through the best boy-led leadership program in the world only to send them back to their adult led program to witness absolutely no change in how the program is run. Why? Because you trained the wrong people! If I was a Jambo contingent scout and they wanted leaders to step up? Not me, unless I have a ton more information on how this contingent is going to be run by the adults. If it's only "same-old, same-old" then forget it, it's not worth the effort. As a boy-led, patrol-method, old program WB, they asked me to be 2nd ASM of the centennial Jambo contingent. I was responsible for the gear. Big deal. I made sure all the boys had their tents, their duffles, etc. etc. etc. and then sat back and watched what I call the troop-method, run by 21st Century WB'ers run the show. There was no boy-leadership evident from the time we left until the time we came back. I had a nice trip out of the exercise. Did any of the boys learn, experience or do leadership? Nope. Why would any intelligent, dedicated scout ever sign on for that? The cynical ASM may find it comforting to blame NYLT for doing a lousy job, but then again, I don't think it's the program that is to blame, nor on the other hand, do I think the boys stupid enough to sign on to a losing proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. We really need to leave Wood Badge and NYLT out of the discussion of why a kid won’t step up to be SPL for a Jambo troop. Those training courses really aren’t going to determine who or why someone takes the position. Having been an ASM for two Jamborees and sitting on the current Jambo committee, I think I have enough experience to speak intelligently on the subject. Depending on the size of the council, here is the truth of the matter, it doesn’t lend itself to being very boy led. The council forms a committee who in turn puts out the word for adult leadership. We basically take applications from interested parties and conduct interviews. From that we select the adult leadership. In conjunction with the council’s recruiting efforts, the adult leadership is tasked with recruiting. Much further down the line once boys have signed up, you begin to hold monthly meetings. Depending on your council, you could have boys in your troop from one end of the state to the other. The only time they have to meet and get to know one another is at their monthly troop meeting. You may have as many as 10 and as few as 6, again depending on a lot of variables within your council and availability of youth and adults. Travel arrangements, gear and a lot of other considerations are going to be determined at the council level with the contingent committee and adult leadership. The main task of the youth leadership is going to be organizing the makeup of the patrols and team building exercises and then herding cats during travel and touring. A Jambo troop is nothing like a regular chartered troop back home. It just isn’t. You can still try to make it is as boy led as possible……and we do……and as much like your home troop, but you can’t duplicate it exactly. Your adult leadership can come from four different troops and four different districts and your youth can be from even more troops and districts. You have a wide variety of troop traditions melding together and a lot of youth and adults feeling their way thru the whole process with a short amount of quality time to get it done. THAT is where I would say having NYLT youth and WB adults speaking the same language would most likely come into play. It CAN provide a commonality to work from. But the youth you have are kids whose parents plopped down the money to go and you are dealing with having to get to know them on a very limited time table. Until you get to know them, you don’t know what their availability or abilities are. You may have a kid who is SPL of his troop as well as OA Chapter Chief and a summer camp staffer who really doesn’t want to become Jambo SPL in addition to his other responsibilities. Then throw church and sports in and he is spread even further. Expecting him to take the position because he went to NYLT and they teach servant leadership can be short sighted. You have to look at the forest instead of the tree. I’m through rambling for now. I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Our scouts who attended NYLT in the past do NOT recommend the course. Their concerns were well considered, respectfully stated, and properly forwarded which also proved to be a waste of time.Strange, the course curriculum is built around the patrol and includes camping, cooking, first aid, pioneering, orienteering, hiking, etc. Are their "classroom" sessions that involve leadership skills like communicating, planning, etc.? Why yes there is, but we did as many as possible by individual patrol and let them pick an outdoor location(s) to hold them. It's all "in the book" and a course director takes a pledge to present the material as designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Had a long conversation with the Jambo contigent SM, He is also the SM for the local NYLT training. as you can imagine most of the boys in the Jambo Troop had also attended NYLT in his troop. Well much to his dismay, NONE of the NYLT attendees volunteered for Senior positions of leadership in the Jambo troop. His the Jambo ASM is more cynical of NYLT calling it a waste of time and only the privileged scouts can go........ I went to the course 30 something years ago.....I found it helpful and had a good time. I was going to try and send a couple of boys summer 2014. I concur with all you say, and when the dust settles, why do we go through the sham motions to give the appearance of some sort of boy leadership at a Jambo contingent when in reality there really isn't any? The boys aren't stupid, the adults aren't fooling them one bit. It's a process by which adults can delegate responsibility duties on boys who have no authority to follow through. They're set up to take the fall right from the get-go. Yeah, right, I can see me in the back row waving my hand and yelling, "Pick me! Pick me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I took Woodbadge years ago mainly to get over the hump of people perceiving that I was new to scouting. i.e. Peer Pressure. I must admit I often hide out in the back of the room at round table so that when the Wood Badge promos begin, I can sneak out of the room and network with the others that are smart enough to hide near the back of the room. Benefits - Networking - elimination of peer pressure. Negative - Tickets - I was already doing too much in scouting. Now you want to ask me to do more? Fine, but you better refer me to a divorce attorney. I honestly saw no benefit to the tickets. From the tickets I've seen, they are shallow or short lived or unrealistic that it will really make a difference in scouting. Write a ???.. Do a ###. The only tickets that seem to last long are the "Volunteer to run the ### at the district level". Most others just fade away and fairly quickly at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I took Woodbadge years ago mainly to get over the hump of people perceiving that I was new to scouting. i.e. Peer Pressure. I must admit I often hide out in the back of the room at round table so that when the Wood Badge promos begin, I can sneak out of the room and network with the others that are smart enough to hide near the back of the room. Benefits - Networking - elimination of peer pressure. Negative - Tickets - I was already doing too much in scouting. Now you want to ask me to do more? Fine, but you better refer me to a divorce attorney. I honestly saw no benefit to the tickets. From the tickets I've seen, they are shallow or short lived or unrealistic that it will really make a difference in scouting. Write a ???.. Do a ###. The only tickets that seem to last long are the "Volunteer to run the ### at the district level". Most others just fade away and fairly quickly at that. Like POR's the tickets take a hit from the abuse of their usage. In the old program there were a number of goals and one had 2 years to finish them all. With that being said, one of my ticket items did take 2 years to finish and I worked on it every week for those two years. I was ASM responsible for the NSP at that time and I went back and worked with Webelos boys and crossed them over to the troop. Unfortunately they had no Web II's and so I worked for 2 years with the Web I's. It was a great experience and I would not have done it without WB pushing it. On the other hand today's WB "tickets" can get knocked out in a weekend or two. Just not the same. Like the watered down Eagle program, WB isn't far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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