Who do you think determines what is within the scope of Scouting?

[BadenP]

This is an offshoot of another thread that F-scouter so heavy handedly terminated, as usual.

 

To answer the question of who determines what is within the realm of scouting is very simple it is National which is locally represented by the professional scouters in your council. Any other answer is plainly untrue, sorry Bob. You can reinterpret or misinterpret all the manuals you want to but it does not change the facts folks. Your SE has the final say in your council, he represents National and sets these policies for his council, you can debate this all you want but it will not change the facts. All manuals are nothing more than guidelines to follow as close as you can but they are not LAW ! When a disagreement errupts over something in a manual it is the SE or his appointee job to clarify it for the volunteer, not an armchair internet scouter. After almost five years as a DE and Sr. DE I had to put this into practice in the field as we were trained to, everything from OA Ordeal disagreements to a SM accused of child abuse. We received plenty of backup from council and the exec. board, but we had to deliver the message from on high which was not always easy but was part of the job. I hope that answers your question Bob.

[Eamonn]

"To answer the question of who determines what is within the realm of scouting is very simple it is National which is locally represented by the professional scouters in your council."

 

WHAT COMPLETE AND UTTER POPPYCOCK!!!

Eamonn

[evmori]

WHAT COMPLETE AND UTTER POPPYCOCK!!!

 

Why do you say that Eamonn?

[Bob White]

National executive board sets the parameters and rules, the local council is charged with enforceing those rules.

 

One of the things the national executive board says is that there is no "individual" activity in Boy Scouts.

 

Scout activities must fit within the boundaries set by the national executive board.

 

To think that a council can take another organization's activity and declare it a Scouting activity is irrational. To think that just because a BSA member is the head of an activity that it automatically is a Scouting activity is irrational.

 

All Scouting activities are either unit activities, district/council activities, or regional/national activities.

 

Anything else is outside the sphere of scouting. A scout troop can attend an air show as a troop activity, but that does not make the air show a scouting activity. Only the troop's outing is a scout activity. The air show is outside the sphere of scouting.

 

The show is not bound by ANY BSA regulations, they did not need the permission of the council to put on the show, they do not have a budget approved by the council, they are not protected by BSA accident insurance or BSA liability protection. The activity of the air show is outside the sphere of scouting.

 

Even if the show was led by someone who happened to be a BSA member, it would not be a scouting activity. Even if that BSA member were a youth it would not be a scouting activity. Even if the youth was using his experience with the show toward an advancement requirement it STILL would not be a scouting activity.

 

The air show would still be outside the sphere of scouting, and the BSA would not have any responsibility for the activity at any level.

 

Should the scout or scouter leading the activity be in uniform? No because it is not a scouting activity, even if they are using the skills they learned in scouting as they lead it. Because the event is NOT a scouting event.

 

Could the troop visiting the air show be in uniform? Yes, they could be. Because they are there involved in a troop outing. The outing is a scout activity NOT the air show.

 

Take this into the realm of an Eagle Service project to landscape a city park. The project belongs to the city, they do not need pernission from the BSA to landscape. They do not need to have the council activity committee approve a budget, they are not covered by BSA insurance or liability protection because the activity is outside the sphere of scouting.

 

EVEN IF the project leader for the park is a registered BSA member it still is not a Scout activity, even if the project leader is a youth member it still is not a scout activity, and even if that youth member is applying the work toward a BSA requirement it still is not a scout activity. It is outside the sphere of scouting. The BSA has NO authority over the project. All the BSA does is accept or deny the scouts work toward an advancement requirement.

 

If a troop goes to work on the landscaping the troop outing is a scout activity but the landscaping project still belongs to the city. Only the troop and its members are protected by the BSA, only the troop and its members are subject to BSA rules and regulations.

 

The landscape project itself is OUTSIDE the sphere of scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

Wouldn't the Lone Scout be considered an individual Scouting activity?

 

In your example, Bob, the landscaping project, providing it was developed by the Scout, belongs to the Scout. He is preforming it for the park. And since he is a Scout, it would be a Scouting activity.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

A Lone Scout is no different than an individual scout doing anything outside of the unit. Their presence at an activity does not make it a Scouting activity. If a scout volunteers on a church project it does not become a scouting activity it is still the church's activity, outside the sphere of scouting. And while the youth can use that experience toward advancement that does not place the activity under the control or responsibility of ANY part of the BSA.

 

 

No the project does not belong to the scout it belongs to the benefitting organization. The Scout cannot tell the park that they can or cannot do the project. The Park can however tell the scout what can or cannot be done, when, and how.

 

The scout is there as a volunteer leader for the benefitting organization.

(This message has been edited by BoB White)

[Gold Winger]

So when a Lone Scout goes camping, that's not a Scouting activity?

 

What about when a patrol goes hiking? That's not a unit activity so by your definition that's not a Scouting activity.

[evmori]

You missed my point, Bob. If a Scout is a Lone Scout, he has no unit, hence the name. So any activity the Lone Scout does doesn't count since it doesn't fit your interpretation of Scouting activity? How would he advance?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

The Boy Scout uniform is worn for Scouting activities or when representing the program in accordance to the parameters set by the national exectutive committee. It is not for events outside of scouting or events that are not in keeping with the rules and regulations of the BSA.

 

Whether a Lone scout or an individual scout it doesn't matter. Simply by wearing the uniform does not make something a scouting activity.

 

If you wear your uniform to work it does not mean that going to work is a scout activity. Nor does it cover you with BSA accident insurance or liability protection just because you are in uniform at work.

 

BadenP: I really hope you are checking you PM e-mail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

As usual, Bob avoid the issue by misdirection.

[Bob White]

"So when a Lone Scout goes camping, that's not a Scouting activity?

Not necearrily. If he goes camping with his church's youth group that is a church activity and not a scouting activity and so it would not be appropriate for him to wear his scout uniform ans the activity is outside the sphere of scouting, The church is not required to habe a BSA tour permiot, they are not required to follow any BSA policy of regulation, no one, including the Lone Scout is protected by BSA insurance or liability protection as the activity is OUTSIDE the sphere of scouting.

 

"What about when a patrol goes hiking? That's not a unit activity so by your definition that's not a Scouting activity."

 

The BSA executive board has clearlty identifiied a patrol activity as an approved unit activity providing it meets specific criteria. So if the patrol meets that criteria then they are protected by BSA insurace and they are responsible for following ALL BSA rules and regulations that are applicable to the activity.

 

BUT if the activity does not meet the criteria then it is not a scouting activity and it is outside the sphere of scouting and the youth would not be protected.

 

As an example. The members of the patrol plan a day hike to a local pool for a day of swimming. If the Scoutmaster approves it then it is a Scouting activity. The scouts must follow all BSA rules and regulations, and would have the benefiot of BSA accident insurance in case of an injury.

 

If however the patrol leader and members of the patrol happen to meet up at the pool and spent the day swimming then it is not a scouting event, it is outside the sphere of scouting, they are not bound by BSA regulations and do not have the nbenefit of BSA accident insurance.

 

Just by being a scout and being somewhere it does not make it a scouting event, just by being in uniform does not make something a scouting event.

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Back to the Lone Scout, what if he camps by himself? Is that Scouting? Not according to you.

 

 

[evmori]

Well, to get his requirements completed, a Lone Scout would have to complete a lot of them by himself or with people that are not members of the BSA. According to Bob, that would mean he could never wear his uniform since he might be camping with the church youth group or identifying his plants & animals with his science class. So if this is the case, does the Lone Scout just toss the uniform method in the dumper?

 

And what if he is going camping with his church youth group and he files a tour permit for himself? That would mean he is camping as a Scouting activity! Grab the uniform!

 

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Lone Scouts are registered directly with the local council. Just because thay are camping it is not a scout activity. They must have a camp plan approved by the council and meet the criteria for Lone Scout Camping set by the National executive board for it to be considered a scouting activity. The Lone Scout can also attend other scout activities hosted by local distrcit/council, or national events. Buut no simply caming out does not make it a scouting activity.

 

Now the logical question arises that if the Lone Scout is camping alone, why would he wear a Boy Scout uniform, who is going to see it?

So what purpose would it serve?

 

Ed

You should be well aware by now that the Methods of Scouting are tools used by adult leaders to deliver the scouting program.

 

They are not things that are applied by the scout. Most scouts go through their entire scouting youth career never even hearing of the Methods of Scouting.

 

The Lone Scout as I menetioned still has opportunites to attend scouting activities and many would be ones appropriate for wearing a BSA uiniform.

 

I have to be honest I am surprised that these kinds of questions are being asked by such veteran scouters. I can understand someone who is untrained or relatively new not knowing these things. But there is nothing remotely difficult find or understand here.

 

Who would honestly think that ANYYTHING and EVERYTHING a BSA member did would be considered a Scouting activity?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

OK so the Lone Scout goes though the necessities set by the National Executive board & heads out on a camping trip. Is it a Scouting activity?

 

Why would he wear his uniform? Because he wants to? He likes to? Why not?

 

Let us not forget the primary use of the uniform is in connection with Scouting activities. Apparently this isn't the only use of the uniform since primary & only do not mean the same thing.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10