Popcorn - Is it finally too expensive?

[seabear]

SueM,

'Our local council has basically taken the "choice" out of selling popcorn..we were told very clearly that if our units did not try to sell, the council would not sign any money earning applications that we would submit for other fund raisers!!'

This has me concern, much more than the raising cost of the pop-corn.

In my time as a youth, there where paper drives,bottle collecting,rags, X-mas tress where big too, etc...I believe we sold light bulbs too.So long ago. We lived within our means.

There was service and the product, much more service than sales.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Not to muddy the waters, well ok, let's muddy the waters. I understand the arguments for and against selling popcorn. In the troop we have one scout who rotuinely sells over 2,000 a year while others struggle to sell a box. BUT

 

I understand the candy bar thing and other events which appear to make more money for the units. Heck, if you like doing it and get a lot of support, it may be worth taking in a couple hundred less than you would in popcorn just for the bonding effect of a well liked successful project. BUT

 

A topic mentioned and not as yet examined, is what about the Council share? If you do nothing but unit fundraise, are you willing to increase FOS donations? The Camps, the Council Facilities, all the assets and expenses the Council incurs all cost moolah. Popcorn sales help. Now, I predict some answers along the lines of we dont care about council, or those guys dont do anything, or something like that, and I guarantee they wont if popcorn goes away as their resources will be curtailed.

 

If a unit doesnt sell popcorn, how should it support Council?

 

[Bob White]

Well So far I have shown mathematically that neither of the two suggestions so far raise as much money as popcorn does.

 

So far no one's post has contradicted my statement that only people unsuccessful at popcorn have suggested that the BSA stop using it. (By the way this has not been a BSA project it has in the past been allowed by the BSA for councils to do but it was never supported on a nationaql level nor does any popcorn money go to national.

 

I have served as popcorn chair in my son's pack and troop several times and so I have sat at the meetings with other popcorn chairs, and discuss all kinds of unit issues as a commissioner so yes my information is first hand.

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Backpacker]

My evidence, is that in my council over the last three years participation in popcorn sales have dropped from 80% to 25%, if that isn't a red flag I don't know what is. Personally my units have sold popcorn and done fairly well, but most of the other leaders are struggling with it, especially this last year when the council dumped Trails End for another company, as a result sales dropped dramatically. Since councils really need this income these days of a tight economy, no United Way support, and decreasing FOS contributions it might do them some good to listen to their leaders suggestions as to alternative products. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

Do not project what happens in your council as being what happens in all 320. It Ain't.

 

Many councils still recieve united way support, it may not be as much as in the past but there are more agencies geting money than in the past so nearly everyone gets less, I really do not believe that any council goes from 80% to 25% participation in popcorn. If the council you claim to be in did then it is a rarity.

 

If your unit was successful at it then it makes no sense that you would get rid of it, but if you did that is your units choice. All I am advocating is don't kill the goose just because you personally don't get enough eggs. Lots and lots of units and councils do great with popcorn, why should we give it up based on the compalints of a few units who don't do it, or don't do it well.

 

If a unit thinks it has something better I say go for it. I hope that they share half with the council since they benefit from all the things the other units help pay for when they do popcorn.

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

My 2 Cents.

I don't eat popcorn. I don't like it.

Her Who Must Be Obeyed really likes the Kettle Corn, Rory seems to like it as well.

I can't remember what the box costs. $15.00 ? $20.00? I don't know.

I seem to remember reading that 60% went back to support Scouts and Scouting. Take out the prizes, take out the money each Scout earns and take out the money the Council (Yes it's the Council, not the District) receives. That $15 or $20 is doing a lot of good.

I don't know how much the corn, the packing and all that other good stuff costs.

I do know that a lot of times I don't give much thought to what something costs. My local gas station is running a special on fountain pop. Any size for only 79 cents. Hey I know the real cost is less than ten cents.

I seen a big sign outside of a bar the other day "Happy Hour All Drafts only $2.00" They were ten ounce domestic drafts, I know that the cost of the product was about 21 cents. I know that there is overhead and that the bar owner has to make a buck.

I'm happy to buy Her Who Must Be Obeyed her kettle corn. She buys me Girl Scout Cookies!!

I do think that the Council who is saying that unless you sell the popcorn, we are not going to sign money earning apps. Is out of line. Still in these days when money is so very tight, maybe it's sell popcorn or we will see some sort of Council Membership Fee? No - I have not heard of such a thing, but it would seem to make sense!!

Our Council is being de-funded by our local United Way. They are doing this to 39 organizations in the area. The only thing they have in common is that they all have endowment funds. By 2008 all $86,000 that we now get isn't going to be there. Even with LFL we only have about 10,000 youth members.

With so much money going to help the Red Cross and the victims of the hurricanes (Which I do of course support) I think we are in for a very tough year when it comes to raising FOS Dollars.

So for now I'm happy to give Happy Hour a miss and keep Her Who Must Be Obeyed stocked with popcorn.

Eamonn.

[evmori]

In my council, the unit make 34% on popcorn. And that can only be done if the unit fundraising chair attends all the meetings & hits all the deadlines. That means a Scout earns $34 for every $100 sold. Now we have sold hoagies & pizzas. We pay $2.95 & sell for $5.00. 41% profit. Sell $100. Earn $41. 7% better than popcorn & way more affordable.

 

Sure selling popcorn helps the council. So does chipping in on Beaver Day to get camp ready. So does giving to FOS. Popcorn is too pricey.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Ed

You are missing a big part of the picture. First is your council Scouting makes 66%-68% profit, the unit gets to keep 34%, but the gross profit is the amount earned by the council AND the unit.

 

As you point out helping earn money for the good of the entire local scouting community is an important part of what popcorn sales is all about.

 

Let's say every scout in your troop sold $600 in popcorn, your unit would make almost$1400 in profit on top of the prizes. What was the total of your troops FOS contribution last year? Let's say every family in your troop gave $125 (the approximate cost for the council to serve each scout each year). That would be around $800.

 

So combined with the popcorn and FOS your troop raised about $2200 for the council. So if you didn't do popcorn this year and chose instead to do hoagies would you be giving over $2000 to the council for FOS?

 

Our popcorn sales average out to be about $13 per container sold.

To raise 2800 in profit each scout in your troop would have to sell 195 hoagies or pizzas BUT only 45 containers of popcorn on average. Not that $5 isn't a good price for a hoagie, but are you trying to sell sandwiches or trying to raise money for a program?

 

 

[evmori]

Bob,

Your math makes no sense.

 

I'm gonna guess you meant $280 not $2,800 in profit. And for a Scout to earn $280 he would need to sell $824 in popcorn which would be (at $13 per container)63 containers. To earn the same amount selling hoagies, a Scout would need to sell (at $5 per hoagie)112 hoagies. Almost twice as much but consider the selling price is less than 1/2 that of the popcorn. Easier sell.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

Ed,

While the work done by volunteers at Council owned camps and the like, is very much needed, required and necessary.

I have to admit to having a problem with those who use this an an excuse for not supporting the finances of the Council.

While I am not gifted in construction and at home am happy to let my fingers do the walking. I like to think that I hold up my end of supporting the Council.

Rarely if ever do I hear the guys and girls on the Training Team say how much they have had to spend of their own hard earned money to present Training's. I have never yet heard a Commissioner complain about the money he or she spends on gas, in order to attend meetings.

I just don't buy into the idea that performing cheerful service at the local Scout Camp, lets anyone off the hook from supporting the Council.

I am in no way trying to put down those who are unable to afford what others might give. Hopefully we would all do what we can.

Still when those who make a point of telling me about all the work they do at camp and how much money they save the Council. I can't help feeling that those who dig into their pockets have paid for the materials that are being used.

Taking a popcorn order form to work is no big deal.

Buying a few boxes in the knowledge that it is going to help fund what I see as my hobby, not only keeps Her That Must Be Obeyed in good sorts. It also is a very painless way of helping support the organization that I love. Even if it does cost a few bucks more than the stuff Wally World is peddling. I for one am happy to spend the extra.

Eamonn.

[Backpacker]

BW

First of all the drop in my council's participation in popcorn sales is accurate and more common than you think, my scouting friends in Calif., Ariz., and Nev. tell me there have been large drops in participation there as well.

 

Second, I do not dislike popcorn sales and my two units are participating again this year. My point is that other units ( a large number) are not participating and I think that the council needs to find out why and listen to those unit leader concerns as they greatly benefit from the profits as much as the units.

 

Third, I agree with ED that your math is way out of whack that you used in your example, I guess math and logic are not among your strong points.

 

[Bob White]

7 scouts X 195 hoagies X $5 = $6825 gross sales

$6825 X .41 (the profit Ed said they made) =$2798.25 profit

 

7 Scouts X 45 average popcorn containers X $13 = $4095 gross sales

$4095 X .68 the gross profit on popcorn) = $2784 profit

 

If you choose to do the hoagies (where you will need to sell 433% more product than if you sold popcorn... not double), will your troop's FOS be more half of what you make PLUS what you would normally give in FOS?

 

And out of curiosity, how much did you make selling hoagies and pizzas at $5 each? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Prairie_Scouter]

I believe that BW, earlier in the thread, commented that those who don't like the popcorn sale are usually those who aren't successful at it, and was looking for an example of a pack that sold popcorn but was unhappy with the sale.

 

Well, here's one.

 

Our pack sells popcorn. We are pretty successful at it. But, every year, the prices go up and sales become more difficult. We see, every year, increasing resistance at site sales, where we make a lot of our money, because we have little to offer to the impulse buyer. We sell zero high priced product at the site sale, and very, very few at the door-to-door sales. Our sales are made up primarily of higher volume of lower priced items. As we see increased resistance as those higher priced items continue to increase in price, our fear is that sometime soon, especially with our troubled economy, our sales will see a dramatic drop. We KNOW we can sell the lower priced items; people are happy to buy them, but we have fewer and fewer items that everyday folk are going to buy.

 

I agree that we should try and support our Councils and Districts with these sales, but they make it more and more difficult by giving us items that are increasingly hard to sell. We have our own bills to pay as well, and at some point, we may have to make a change in our fundraising plans to make sure that we cover our own expenses.

[packsaddle]

I think one element that is not being discussed...but nevertheless important to this topic is the customer [but Prairie_Scouter just touched on it in the post before this one]. We can play all the games we want with margins but if a customer doesn't buy, there is no profit. Period.

 

Also, I would like to know how the $13 popcorn average price was established. Are the prices less expensive in other areas of the country? They sure are higher than that around here. To establish a fair average, the actual sales need to be known. The individual sales forms I have seen indicate that people are mostly buying the higher$$$ items, just fewer of them.

 

The margin IS important but also the volume. I sympathize with the candy bar idea. These days, a person will pay $1 for a similar candy bar at any convenience store and perhaps get a product inferior to the fundraiser bar for the same money (at least for the fundraising bars I have seen and purchased, and which taste very good, I might add).

And these days, $1 is closer to a trivial expense than $18-20 for a tin of cat litter, I mean popcorn (oops, sorry, my bias on popcorn is showing). Especially when an equivalent product can be purchased, IF NEEDED, for much less (about 60-68% less) at the grocery store.

This differential may indeed translate into greater volume of sales for the small-cost item. And that may compensate for any differences in margin, differences that, after all, may be...marginal.

 

Edited part: I must have been typing when Prairie_Scouter posted, sorry.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Bob White]

I also said that the people o this forum who complain anbout popcorn complain about every thing else in scout too, so I at least get half the points for Prairie Scouter's post don't I?

 

By the way what I said was that those who do not sell it or are not good at it are the ones who want to get rid of it. The fact is popcorn over all is very successful for most units. As an example, as a cubmaster, the pack I served always had a net pack profit of $9,000- $11,000 each year. This was in a town of about 24,000 people and we were just one of several packs in town.

 

Why am I not surprised that you complain even about something you say you do good at in scouting?

 

Out of curiosity how good did your unit do?

 

 

Packsaddle. There is more that one popcorn supplier remember that up to now this has been a council activity not a BSA nationally sponsonsored one, so individual councils can contract whoever they want. Because of that prices and selection can vary from council to council.

 

In our council prices range from $8 to $30 depending on the product you select. Average sale price per container is just over $13.