Popcorn - Is it finally too expensive?

[Backpacker]

"All I said was a lot of units make a lot of money from popcorn sales and the only ones that complain are those who do not sell it or sell it very well."

 

The question is, Is BSA Popcorn overpriced to the point where it is no longer the big seller that it was years ago, and that is a valid concern among many scouters today, especially if a council is forcing a unit to sell it, as was stated by another poster, or they would not sign off other fund raising events. Is that being scoutlike? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

Just nearly 30 years as a unit leader, District Commissioner, Roundtable Commission, District and Council commitee member, BSA Trainer, working with hundreds of units and several hundred scouters listening to what they like and don't like, and what works and doesn't work, and helping them solve problems, other than that we have the posters themselves.

 

Let's ask how many do the popcorn sales and how much they have raised.

So starting with the posters in this thread who do not like popcorn or its price lets ask if they do it and how well they have done. And of course everyone remembers they are on their Scout's Honor.

 

By the way is it any surprise that for the most part it's the same regular list of posters complaining and the same people supporting.

[madkins007]

I apologize for not remembering how much any of the units I have been associated with earned, but both the pack and the main troop I was with both had boys who were top sellers in the district, and one year we had the 3rd top seller in the council.

 

About 50% of the families that actively sold popcorn were able to pay for both summer camp and dues out of it. I would estimate that about 50% of the families of both units actively sold it.

 

This is even considering that the pack was in a solidly lower income area.

 

But... it is also interesting that in probably about 75-85% (possibly even as high as 'all but one') of the cases, the top sellers were families that took the forms to work or made a deal with a company to use popcorn as a coprorate holiday gift. By a weird coincidence, the company I worked for was one of those usiung it as a corporate gift, and the family they bought it from made top seller that year.

 

It sold very well for some of our families, but I still don't like it as a fundraiser.

[Bob White]

Well who can argue with logic like that? Absolutely, go to the unit committee and tell them dispite all the money they made and all the things it purchased for the scouts, and all the prizes that the boys got, the unit should stop doing it because YOU don't like it.

 

I'll bet that goes over real big. Now that you've explained it so well who could disagree?

[anarchist]

 

First I would like to apologize to FScouter for mischaracterizing his comment...my using "Value" when he actually wrote "all prices are Fair" (definition as in: Fair-reasonable or just, even handed, adequate)..so I guess I should have said...that his statement on its face was incorrect...not all prices are fair (eg. $1,500 for a coffee pot or a hammer... as in DOD price lists)...just because a sale is made does not mean the price is fair...simply put the price is agreeable to the purchaser for his own needs or reasons (and Yes FScouter my friend I am an antagonist...most anarchists are arn't they? I have a difficult time with Absolutes...its a vision thing, I was never able to see in absolute Black and White) But do accept my apology for a hasty mistake. My three fingers often type faster than my feeble brain can transmit.

 

And Dear old B.W.,In this thread a "fair" question was asked and just because it isn't in lock step with your vision of the BSA world, the other side is tarred with the complainer label. The same old malcontents...

 

Most of us don't give a darning needle about others selling popcorn ...you can have it, bon appetite!...

 

But when councils start withholding appoval of other fund raisers... Say, if your unit does not participate in popcorn sales or when BSA requires units to justify "fair value" for a product to be sold vs. price paid, BUT CAN NOT do the same for its own "private lable" popcorn... let alone allowing boys to wear uniforms for popcorn sales (a poor value to cost ratio) while not letting units wear uniforms to sell... say, meals ( a much better value) all because a unit does not "do" popcorn...the term hypocrisy does come to mind...but perhaps thats too black and white...maybe its just extortion.

 

tossin out another cocktail

anarchist

[packsaddle]

Anarchist, unlike the real-world situation where $3 popcorn is selling for $15, I need to bring attention to the myth of the overpriced hammer. Here's a site that explains the phenomenon:

http://www.govexec.com/gpp/0299media.htm

There are other sources as well that give a similar answer. This does not really detract from what I think was your point, however.

If a person wakes up and decides they want to buy the 'super deluxe popcorn' for $15, if it is that simple, then it is a straight-forward honest transaction - fully conforming to FScouter's characterization. However, if they reluctantly decide to do the same thing, regardless of the source of their reluctance, it is possible that FScouter's characterization is not as simple as it seems. There may be more to the decision than appears on the surface and if an outside observer can't see below the surface, FScouter's approach might still appear to be appropriate. However, if the seller knowingly exploits some advantage over some weakness in the buyer, you may be correct in your concern.

The problem is getting everything to the surface. In a perfect market, competition with the $3 popcorn should force a correction if, indeed, the $15 popcorn is truly equal in quality. I think you are arguing that because the $15 price continues to stand, perhaps there is a non-competitive aspect to this sale that needs to be re-examined.

So, how am I doing here? Is that about right or do I have things badly confused?

[Vicki]

Pack, not bad! "perhaps there is a non-competitive aspect to this sale that needs to be re-examined." If I remember my economics classes correctly there are always factors that detract from achieving a pure solution. In this case, I think several of them have been suggested - councils which frown on approving fundraisers for troops/packs that don't sell popcorn, consumers who feel they must purchase or else feel guilt and the influence of large corporations making large purchases (then deduct at least 50% of the expense).

 

I know there are a couple of scouters out there with a firmer grasp of economics who could flesh this thought out better...

 

Vicki (edited to correct a mis-spelling)

(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[bucabaker]

Unit price:

 

I checked the unit price of microwave popcorn, admittedly, the best buy of the popcorn selection. We have the 15 pack 45 ounce package selling at $12. A unit price of $4.27/lb.

 

I checked the unit prices on the store shelves at my local supermarket and unit prices ran $3.50 to $5.00 per pound.

 

So the unit price is pretty competitive for that product, especially given it is a fundraising item.

 

No agument you can do better still going to the big box store. But retail is about selling the shopping experience and for some of us anyway it doesn't get much better than buying from a young Scout.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

bucabaker, do you watch MythBusters? You should apply for staff!

 

[Lynda J]

This may be our troops last year to sell popcorn.

It is getting to expensive. People made comments last year about Boy Scouts ripping people off on the price of the popcorn. Kevin sold almost $600 last year. With the economy this year I will be happy with half that.

 

We are looking at a candy bar deal. Will make much more money for the troop and the bars are $1.50 each. When Kevin sold them at school he sold over 1000. THe school got $.50 each. PTO made a lot of money on them.

 

Several years ago our troop took orders for christmas wreaths. They were prepaid and the boys delivered them the weekend after Thanksgiving.

They cleared over $500.

 

Boy Scouts need to wake up and find a money maked that isn't so expensive.

[Bob White]

Lynda.

Your candy bars raise far less money than popcorn. Your product cost is twice that of popcorn. With the candy bars the school made 33% profit with popcorn your council made 66% profit which was split between the council and the unit.

 

0n $600 in popcorn sales scouting raised $400.

With the candy bars you would have needed to sell $800 or 33% more product to raise the same amount of money.

 

Buy selling $1000 in candy and making $500 in profit you needed 66% more product sales to gain a 25% increase in profit compared to what your son's popcorn sale yielded. Not a very efficient sales profile.

 

Popcorn is in fact the more profitable item.

 

Vicki,

Don't you think that people who don't sell popcorn telling all of us that the BSA councils should stop doing because they don't like it, is far mor divisive and far less informative than anything I said?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Lynda J]

I understand the profitability of the popcorn. But this year the units I have talked with that have done Show & Sell are having real problems selling. One sold less than 1/3 of what they did last year. People simply aren't paying $15 for a box of popcorn. With fuel and everything going up.

Last year our school went to selling cookie dough.

Well it has to be frozen to store it. I don't know many that have freezer space for 8-10 containers of cookie dough. Their profits were down big time. In fact after they did the prizes for the kids they bearly broke even.

People are more likely to have two dollars in their pocket for a candy bar than 15+ for popcorn.

 

[Cubmaster-Fred]

Bob,

 

We sold candy bars ($1.00 a bar) and sold over 2,000 bars. The unit gets .50 from every sale, that equates to 50% profit for the unit.

 

We sell popcorn to do our part, but it is not our fund raiser. We don't push it and let the boys sell what they can.

 

What I don't agree with is rules that change for the popcorn every year. Last year and this year if the units sell up to what they did last year they get 30% profit not 33%. After the unit sells 15% more than last year it gets 33%. This is just plain wrong and council doesn't see it.

 

Fred

 

If you want to try the candy bars I can set you up the contact for the $1.00 bars.

[Bob White]

Fred

You are still only getting 50% profit where popcorn gets over 60%. The difference is you keep all the proceeds rather than splitting it with the council.

 

If you did that you would only get 25% rther than the 30-33% you get from Popcorn.

 

Sure it be be best for your unit but popcorn helps the ntire scoutng community, reduces the dependence on the UW funds, and improves resources and services for all the scouts in the coucil and their families.

 

The big difference I see is that it has worked for you and you are not clling for the BSA to find something different. Where as the folks who have not made use of popcorn sales want it to go away from everyone.

[Vicki]

BW wrote, "Vicki, Don't you think that people who don't sell popcorn telling all of us that the BSA councils should stop doing because they don't like it, is far mor divisive and far less informative than anything I said?"

 

BW, what I'm reading here is some kvetching, some reasonable debate, some interesting points. Different ways that have helped people to succeed and reasons why some just have a really hard time with it. Some of which would be good points to consider if we were doing a market study. Which we're not, we're sitting around an electronic campfire. What I don't hear is a general hue and cry to stop selling popcorn. Certainly nothing to merit the disdain evident in your posts (although the last couple have been in the same reasonable tone as the other posters in this thread). Shoot, nobody's even suggested the possibility of asking for approval to wear their uniform to sell something besides popcorn! Now, THAT would be worthy of taking them behind the barn for a good switching! (Tongue firmly in cheek.)

 

Vicki