Global Warming - yes, no, maybe?

[Eagle92]

Vol,

Northerners, aka Yankees, are just jealous that we live in God's country and they don't

 

Seriously though the sectionalism is quite disturbing.

[Basementdweller]

jeezzzz guys.

 

I just noted that people from Tenn, GA, NC believe Global warming is a hoax and those in the north Minnesota, Michigan, and Ohio agree that there is something to global warming.

 

I never commented on education level, income level or social issues. I am sorry that you are thin skinned enough that it bothers you.

 

 

I happen to agree and believe that we humans are warming the planet.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

BrentAllen writes:

Yep, it's a good thing we have global warming, otherwise, those RECORD snow falls hitting Alaska and the northeast would be REALLY BAD!

 

You obviously have no idea what the issues are. Really. You're as bad as people who say evolution is a hoax because if people evolved from apes, why are there still apes, or who say the moon landing is a hoax because space travel through a vacuum is impossible.

 

Like Harlan Ellison said, everyone's entitled to an INFORMED opinion.

[GaHillBilly]

Ho, "Merlin the King" (aka "Merlyn le Roy);

 

You write: " You're as bad as people who say evolution is a hoax because if people evolved from apes, why are there still apes, or who say the moon landing is a hoax because space travel through a vacuum is impossible."

 

Given your bent toward fancy and fantasy (as evidenced by your nom de Forum), I have to ask: Can you identify ANYONE who says either of those things?

 

Or is this just another of your fancy fantasies?

 

I'm pretty close to the evangelical community, and some of the weirder things believed by fundamental creationists, and I've never heard either one.

 

GaHillBilly

 

 

[Eagle92]

Basement,

Not thin skinned, but have been stereotyped due to regional location. In my experience when sectionalism comes up, the idea of a Southern "country bumpkin," or in my case a dumb Cajun from the bayous of Louisana, with little to no education, a low paying job or no job at all, is implied becasue of said stereotype. In my case look at the movie WATERBOY for the sterotype.

 

While I do not rule out global warming as being manmade, I do have some serious questions about AGW, and the evidence to support it. Using the research skills I've developed earning 2 masters' degrees, I do not believe there is enough evidence to support it.

 

Edited: Forgot to add that deleting primary research data and conspiring to silence opponents to your arguments also contribute to my low opinion of AGW.

(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Can you identify ANYONE who says either of those things?

 

The evolution canard is so frequent it's in the talk.origins FAQ.

 

You may have heard of Mother Angelica, a nun on the Eternal Word Television Network, a Catholic organization that she founded:

http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?ID=3165289

...

"There is nothing in Scripture against evolution, so long as you recognize that God is the Prime Mover. Although in my ignorant mind I've often wondered, "Why are there still apes around if we came from them?" Somewhere along the line if apes became man, wouldn't all the apes be men by now?"

 

Here are a few more examples:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/204ff49411bae36f?hl=en

...

"If we evolved from lets say apes then why are there still apes?"

 

http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/78482-america-evolution-3.html

...

"Also, if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?"

 

http://www.giveittomeraw.com/forum/topics/what-the-monkeys-eat

...

"If we evolved from apes - why are there still apes?"

 

You can find thousands of examples with google.

 

As for moon landing hoax nuts, here's one:

http://letsrollforums.com/moon-landing-hoax-t18942.html?s=073f2925ae608292794222b8281da1d3

...

"NASA claims that the spacecraft was slowly rotated causing the shadowed side to be cooled by the intense cold of space an intense cold that DOES NOT EXIST. In fact the only thing that could have been accomplished by a rotation of the spacecraft is a more even and constant heating such as that obtained by rotating a hot dog on a spit. In reality a dish called Astronaut a la Apollo would have been served. At the very least you would not want to open the hatch upon the crafts return."

 

By the way, what are some of my earlier "fancy fantasies"?

[packsaddle]

Eagle92, glad to read about your thick skin - I grant that the stereotype exists. So also don't forget about Snuffy Smith, Little Abner, Dukes of Hazard, Beverly Hillbillies, Sweet Home Alabama, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, Forest Gump, Cletus in the Simpsons, most of the books by Pat Conroy, not to mention much of Faulkner, the scathing words of Mencken, and on and on. You can find similar stuff about other regions as well but not as much of it...as you probably understand. We DO provide such rich material to write about. So I note that it doesn't help much for Southerners to willfully and proudly support the stereotype.

 

Brent, the severe snow storm that hit the East Coast recently does not contradict the underlying mechanisms that support the climate predictions. By itself it is not evidence against the idea.

[Beavah]

Yah, and like many stereotypes, there are some sad truths to it, eh? High school graduation rate across da south is substantially lower than the rest of the country. There's a proud anti-intellectualism which seems to come up a lot. Da Sarah Palin worship thing is perhaps a stark example.

 

Smart people like scientists shouldn't tell us what to do! They could be wrong! They could be tryin' to pull one over on us! They could be liberal "elites"! Don't trust da "mainstream media", don't trust da academics! Believe da untrained bloggers and loudmouth pundits instead!

 

It's really quite tragic. Culture determines a lot about how we raise our children to be successful or to be failures in da world.

 

Folks like that everywhere, of course. We have a few of 'em around here. But outside of the urban slums, yeh don't quite see the same tone of anti-intellectual culture that seems to be da stock of the old south.

 

I've got a few degrees above undergraduate too, eh? Doesn't make me qualified to second-guess da work of climatologists, just like degrees in climatology don't make 'em qualified in my field.

 

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if Al Gore had kept his trap shut on this issue, eh? Would da debate have been different if the scientific community had gone to the farmin' belts of the midwest and south and discussed how drought will reduce their crop yields and land values for their children and grandchildren? How OPEC and da Saudis manipulate prices to keep us from developin' alternatives because they trust we'll be stupid? Or would they have been met with da same anti-intellectual and political fervor? Drill, baby, drill.

 

To be honest, in a lot of ways I don't give a hoot about whether we're forcing global warming. Moving aggressively toward alternate energy and conservation is a national security issue. We can't keep funding our enemies by mortgaging our houses to buy oil. Da people who are sellin' oil are among the most corrupt or wicked on the planet.

 

And da developing world is goin' to keep upping the demand unless we come up with something better, eh? Whoever comes up with something better is goin' to be the dominant economy for the next 100 years. If it's China and not us, we're condemning the U.S. into obscurity as a former world leader. Our grandkids will be emigrating to the orient looking for work.

 

Alternate energy is a conservative issue. So is education. It's our national security and our heritage at stake.

 

Gotta agree with BA, though. Cap-and-trade is just goin' to be the next version of credit default swaps. A largely unregulated gambling pool for bankers and crooks. Probably why a lot of folks are pushin' it that way instead of doin' the obvious thing and implementing a carbon tax.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagle92]

Yep the south, like everywhere has its problems.

 

In reference to scientists all scientists belieiving in AGW, that isn't the case as you do have scientists, meteorologists, climatologists etc, oppose AGW. Best example is the group of folks who were part of the UN commission, vehemently disagreed with the assessment, and asked to have their names removed form the document as they opposed it.

 

Now in referecne to alternative energy, I am defininately for it because it is a national security issue. Oil currently IS the fuel of our industry, and we need to remember what happens to those countries that depend on other countries for oil, i.e. Germany and Japan in the 1930s and 40s. If memory serves, a stangle point in oil shipping can be blocked by a country with a history of anti-American setiment, since at least 1979.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

hey Pack, in your review of Southern referenced literature you missed Atticus Finch, as decent an American father as there ever was in American Literature and the best part was he had a Scout in his family. And the biggest kicker was that ol' Atticus was a lawyer to boot...

 

I could forgive you if you were just having a Boo Radley moment however

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[BadenP]

When Shakespere wrote "kill all the lawyers", he was really on to something a updated version would read, kill all the lawyers, politicians, and CEO's of all financial institutions and energy companies. Maybe then we could get something accomplished in this country with issues like global warming and the economy.

[packsaddle]

OGE, While Atticus was an exemplary lawyer, keep in mind the cultural forces from his society that he was fighting. And for those who don't know the book, Scout was his daughter. Mary Badham (who played the part of Scout) has visited here on several occasions to talk about the film, the moral, and of course, Gregory Peck, to whom she continues to refer as 'Atticus'. She's still just lovely.

 

I have to say that while I am not an economist, I am sympathetic with the mistrust of the cap and trade approach. I have already seen some of the deceptions and I worry that BA and Beavah might be completely correct about it. It looks like fertile ground for the likes of con artists and stock brokers. I'm still studying this though and don't have a sufficient understanding to condemn the idea across the board - there may be merit, in theory at least.

 

BadenP, I'm hoping that was tongue-in-cheek and your mention of 'killing' all those folks was just code for preventing them from having controlling power over the rest of us. I'd settle for keeping the honest ones and putting the crooks in jail.

 

I completely agree with Beavah about these things being conservative issues in the true conservative sense. Well said.

As for degrees, I actually DO have degrees in fields (water resources and ecology) that directly relate to the climate issue. They have allowed me gain the expertise, training, and experience to understand how much I still need to know before I feel comfortable with generalities and long-range predictions.

On the other hand, I am completely unqualified to offer legal or political advice. And, evidently from the balance in my 401K, unqualified for investment advice as well.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Speaking of Lil'Abner...

 

Them city folks and we-uns are pretty much alike,

Though they ain't used to living in the sticks.

We don't like stone or cement, but we is in agreement

When we gets down to talkin' politics:

 

The country's in the very best of hands,

the best of hands, the best of hands.

 

The Treasury says the national debt is climbing to the sky

And govermnent expenditures have never been so high.

It makes a feller get a gleam of pride within his eye,

to see how our economy expands,

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

You ought to see the congress when it's drawing up a bill,

"Where as"'s and "to wit"'s are crowded in each codicil.

Such legal terminology would give your heart a thrill.

There's phrases there that no one understands.

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

The building boom, they say, is getting bigger every day.

And when I asked a feller "How could everybody pay?"

He come up with an answer that made everything OK,

"Supplies are getting bigger than demands."

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

Don't you believe them congressmen and senators are dumb.

When they run into problems that are tough to overcome,

They just declare a thing they calls a moritorium.

The upper and the lower house disbands.

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

The voters are connected to the nominee,the nominee's connected to the treasury.

When they ain't connected to the treasury,They sits around on their thigh bones.

 

They sits around in this place they got,

This big congressional parking lot.

Just sits around on their you know what.

Up there they call them their thigh bones.

 

Them bones, them bones gonna rise again,

Gonna exercise a franchise again,

Gonna tax us up to our eyes again,

If we gets them off of their thigh bones.

 

The farm bill should be 89 percent of parity,

Another feller recommends it should be 93.

But 80, 95 percent, who cares about degree?

It's parity that no one understands.

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

Them GOP's and Democrats each hates the other one.

They's always criticizing how the country should be run.

But neither tells the public what the other's gone and done.

As long as no one knows where no one stands,

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

They sits around in this place they're at,

Where folks in congress have always sat.

Just sits around on their excess fat,

Up there they call them their thigh bones.

 

They sits around 'til they start to snore,

Jumps up and hollers "I has the floor!"

Then sits right down where they sat before,

Up there they call them their thigh bones.

 

Them bones, them bones gonna rise again

So dignified and so wise again

While the budget doubles in size again,

If we gets them off of their thigh bones.

 

The money that they taxes us, that's known as revenues,

They compound up collaterals, subtracts the residues.

Don't worry 'bout the principle and interest that accrues,

They're shipping all that stuff to foreign lands,

The country's in the very best of hands.

 

[BrentAllen]

Beavah,

Thanks for continuing to throw around those stereotypes. Nice to know where you stand.

 

Here's a little news flash for ya. The REAL intellectual elites think YOU are just as much of a dumb-bumpkin, anti-intellectual idiot as you think us Southerners are. Why? Because you believe in a supernatural being. Anyone with a REAL brain wouldn't believe in such nonsense. So, how do those shoes fit?

 

Of course, if you are like me, you really don't give rat's behind what some snot-nosed, liberal "elitist" thinks about you, anyway. If AGW is correct, and the world collapses, those elitists won't have a chance. Remember, us country boys can survive.

[le Voyageur]

such reparte' am I hearing this???? ....