School SafeRides program stalls due to religion

[TheScout]

So Merlyn, I ask again, is the federal government dishonest then for its national charter of the BSA?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

TheScout, the BSA's charter from the federal government is not the same as a charter a scout council grants to a school; they both use the word "charter", but they mean different things. The BSA's national charter means it's a Title 36 organization.

[TheScout]

Merlyn, I realize that. But the fact remains that the US government still endorses the activities of the BSA through the charter.

 

So I ask again, is the federal government dishonest for giving such a charter to the BSA?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

In a word, no. Title 36 organizations include other organizations that discriminate on the basis of religion.

 

However, BSA councils that issue charters to public schools are being dishonest, because the council expects those public schools to exclude atheists, and they know public schools can't do that.

[TheScout]

"However, BSA councils that issue charters to public schools are being dishonest, because the council expects those public schools to exclude atheists, and they know public schools can't do that."

 

That is not the problem of the BSA. It is up to the school whether it wishes to follow warped views of the constitution like yours, or resist.

 

The constitution, like any contract, is not binding, if one side changes its terms unilaterally.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Why is the BSA blameless? The local council didn't stop this charter when the national BSA told all their councils to do so.

[ScoutNut]

"The SafeRides program is owned by the Venturers"

 

This is an incorrect statement. As noted in the portion of the article that was quoted by epalmer84, SafeRides itself IS a Venture Crew.

 

The Crew is chartered by the school district and the Crew Advisors are paid as facility advisors.

 

The problem came to light when a student wanted to JOIN the Venture Crew (SafeRides) & the student's parents had a problem with BSA's Declaration of Religious Principal.

 

One solution is for the parent association at the school to take over the charter and for the 2 paid teachers to simply VOLUNTEER their time as Crew Advisors.

 

Or, they could drop the Venture Crew and reorganize as an Explorer Post, although this might be tricky since Explorers are career based.

 

Either way, I would think that the Council should have done a better job of advising their Units chartered to public agencies. Our Council helped all of their units chartered to schools and government bodies to find alternate charter partners a few years back.

 

I am sure that their Venturing DE and the local council are helping the school district find a new charter organization for this group of wonderful, caring, young adults!

 

Instead of spending our time bashing the BSA and degrading the great work done by these young men & women, we should be congratulating them for their foresight & community service & sending our hopes their way for a "Safe Ride" around this bump on their road!

 

[TheScout]

Merlyn, local councils were not told to do so! Read your own links. They were "advised to do so."

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"Public schools and government organizations do not serve as chartered organizations"

 

Not "should not"; not "ought not"; "do not".

 

http://www.scouting.org/relationships/34196/01.html

[TheScout]

"In a letter dated March 11, 2005, the Director of Registration at the Boy Scouts of America National Office notified the ACLU of Illinois that it intended to ADVISE "all local councils to transfer charters issued to government entities to private entities immediately."

 

Emphasis Added.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

And do public schools serve as chartering organizations? No, they "do not". Now, even granting your rather narrow view that "advise" in a letter to the ACLU describing what National told local councils means that rechartering is somehow optional, you can't get around the fact that, on the official BSA website today, it says public schools do not serve as chartering organizations.

[TheScout]

Well I guess some schools still charter units. Thats what this article is about. I am not sure, but it seems like the words you get from the website are policy guidelines, not rules.

 

Also note the construction of "Public schools and government organizations do not serve as chartered organizations." It could have said, "Public schools and government organizations can not serves as chartered organizations." It almost seems like it does not bind the council. It is saying what public schools will "not" do. If national wanted to BAN local councils from chartering to public schools, the language could have been much clearer. Just a thought.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

TheScout writes:

Well I guess some schools still charter units.

 

Yep, but you'll notice the school superintendent realizes they can't.

 

I am not sure, but it seems like the words you get from the website are policy guidelines, not rules.

 

But a letter from the BSA to the ACLU merely *describing* what the BSA would tell councils is a solid rule? And you say that *I* only pay attention to opinions that agree with mine?

 

Here's what the St. Louis Council says about it:

www.stlbsa.org/NR/rdonlyres/E267A75E-62F0-41A6-A1B0-6BD703A6DEE8/0/DuffleBag_MayJuneJulyAugust2005.pdf

...

"The National Council of the BSA in March directed local councils to begin transferring sponsorship of Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops and Venture crews from public schools and government entities to private organizations."

...

National directed councils to do this.

 

Here's how a United Methodist letter described it:

www.praypub.org/pdf_docs/BSA_UMC_Letter.pdf

...

"The Registration Service of the Boy Scouts of America has instructed local councils to immediately terminate all charter agreements with public schools and government agencies that charter traditional scouting units and to transfer these units to nongovernmental entities."

...

[TheScout]

Merlyn, you take your warped conclusions and are always assured of your correctness. Notice I never stated I KNEW the policy, like you always claim you know what is right.

 

Recall my friend that I said, "I am not sure, but it seems like the words you get from the website are policy guidelines, not rules."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fgoodwin]

As best as I can tell, the SafeRide program didn't discriminate in the service it provided; but it did have membership requirements for its drivers, and apparently that was too much for one atheist family to live with.

 

This strikes me as just another example of an atheist with a chip on his shoulder, actively seeking cases where they can complain about discrimination, and creating problems for others whenever he can.

 

So, instead of finding something else to volunteer for (a more constructive approach), this family threatens a lawsuit and basically kills a service of benefit to the greater school community.

 

Yes, they proved their point, and the rest of the school is worse off for it. Typical "if I can't join, then no one can" attitude.

 

God bless em', I hope they're happy . . .