BrentAllen Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 First, the spelling is "serious" not "sericous", and the proper word would be "are" not "is." I'm so tired of this argument. Do I really need to post all the quotes again from ALL the politicians who spoke of what a grave threat Saddam was, with his weapons? Kerry, Clinton, Albright, Berger, Gore, Kennedy, Waxman, Edwards, Cohen? Ill be glad to do it, again. Then you will say they were all lying too, or change your story to Bush wasn't actually lying, he just cherry-picked the intelligence. That would be just as false as your claim that Bush lied to get us into war. The fact is there was an intelligence failure. Everyone, let me repeat EVERYONE, thought he had the weapons. There was no evidence to suggest he had destroyed them. Saddam's men have stated they lied about the WMD's, so the Iranians and others would think they had them, and would fear them. The fact is our military won a tremendous victory in Iraq (planned by Rumsfeld). They covered more ground and won the battle in an amazingly short period of time. If you could see through your partisan glasses, you would remember the press was predicting lots and lots of G.I. deaths, especially when we reached Baghdad. The street fighting would be horrendous. It wasn't. The plan to secure the peace afterwards has not gone well, but it has gone much better than what you are reading from your far left blogs. I can't predict what my kids will do tomorrow, so I imagine it was pretty hard predicting how the Iraqis would feel after the invasion, and what they would do. I get my news from a variety of sources, including Fox News and Limbaugh. You should check them out, instead of just letting the lefties brainwash you. Seems to me the MSM has been issuing an awful lot of corrections and apologies. Go crawl back under your small rock, where everyone hates Bush and thinks gays must be allowed in Scouting and religion must be removed, in order for the BSA to become "a great youth organization again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 You are right, Ed. I'll move on to more productive endeavors. Hope you had a nice Memorial Day. Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm still searching for the evidence of "truly noteworthy and extraordinary service to America's youth." So, he allowed the use of FT AP Hill to continue. This was not an original idea. Did his predecessors also get the SB? The BSA was clearly motivated by political pressure. Since this thread has declined into political and personal attacks, it's time to close it and move on. I'm beginning to see Kahuna's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I think Lisabob's idea is the best one--I don't like BSA giving an award that looks like a payment for favors (in this case, allowing the Jamboree to stay at A.P. Hill). The BSA shouldn't appear to be currying favor with politicians. I should also note that you can become adept at just skimming past the posts of people who tend to make incendiary statements. Especially if they're just fighting each other, and it's here on Issues and Politics, you shouldn't let it bother you too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I don't know where some of you have gotten the idea that the court ruling over the jamboree was somehow reversed by Rumsfeld; he doesn't have the authority to do so. Currently, the ruling is under appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 So Clinton and Rummy got the Silver Beaver, I guess the SB has been devalued like the Medal of Freedom. Purely political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgoodwin Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 I've also looked for a rationale as to why Sec. Rumsfeld received the Silver Beaver and haven't found anything. Until someone can find it and post it, everything else is speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Of course it's just speculation, but to give Rumsfeld the award at the same time BSA is hoping that the administration will aggressively pursue the jamboree appeal just looks bad. Of course, non-profits do this kind of stuff all the time--I just wish BSA wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 From the Silver Buffalo Award Overview: "It is customary to present this award to the U.S. President sometime during his term of office, in large measure because of his status as Honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America." So, is that being "purely political?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkelaT Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Anyone who has been involved in scouting for a while realizes that the Silver Beaver, and Buffalo are very political in who they are awarded to from the council level to National. They are given for favors granted, or to curry favor with those in power locally or nationally. If you really believe they are not then you are just being naive or as Brent put it "living under a very small rock." Is it wrong that the BSA awards these for favors, when the government does the same thing locally and nationally? Is this an issue that scouters should be name calling and questioning ethics? The answer to both is a big resounding NO. Come on folks this is nothing new that people are given awards they may not deserve all the time, its a fact of life. As the old adage says, "its not what you know as much as who you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwd-scouter Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I can't say anything about recipients of the Silver Buffalo award since I don't personally know anyone who has received it. But, as for the Silver Beaver, I personally know many people who have been awarded the Silver Beaver in our Council and ALL of them were very deserving. I will admit I don't personally know everyone who has received the Silver Beaver in our Council over the years, and perhaps some of them were for political favors. But, let's not cast every recipient in a negative light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobanon Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 BrentAllen are you the forum spelling monitor? The argument that is the point, not whether or not something was spelled correctly. Complaining about a misspelled word or two is grasping on your part. Yes there was intelligence. Was it skewed to make the need for war more palatable? Yes, and there is no need to bring up every instance, but I will point to Niger and the yellow cake as one. How do you explain the out right lie that was made that Saddam was responsible for the attacks on Sept. 11? That was one REAL big whopper of a lie. I can't wait to hear your explanation! We do know that Saddam did have some WMDs in the form of chemical weapons. How did we know this? We still had the receipts. Funny thing we didnt seem to mind when he was using chemical weapons on the Iranians or his own people. Why there is even that famous picture of Saddam and Rumsfeld all buddy-buddy after making a weapons deal. You can accuse me of being a leftist all day long it affects me not. I find your arguments juvenile at best and laughable for the most part. It must be hard to continually put up the faade of moral indignation when one is so ethically corrupt. Keep it up though I am having a ball. I am sorry to inform you that I am not a fan of Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Bill Clinton or his wife, or any of the other bad jokes of the democratic party. The democratic party is a farce and has been for years. On the subject gays; I am comfortable with my own sexuality, are you? I'm happily married with no hang-ups or weirdness in the closet. Those who decry gays the loudest come across as maybe having something to hide themselves. Personally I don't think much one way or another about gays. What adults do is their business, not mine or really anyone else's. There are many like yourself that seem to dwell on 00000 constantly, which may be an indication of latent homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 AkelaT, All I can say is that I am glad I'm not in your council if all of your Silver Beavers were awarded for political favors. I personally know a fair number of Silver Beaver recipients in my council and all of them deserved the award. The SM of the troop I serve just recived the SB a couple of months ago. You'd never meet a more dedicated scouter. He has been the SM of an almost 45 year old troop for the last 5 years. He turned it around into a true boy led troop. A year ago we had about 45 boys. Due to his excellent program efforts, leadership and training of boy leadership, we were sought out by boys from 4 to 5 different packs and crossed over 20 boys this spring. We now are running 60 boys at meetings. He is a great asset to the OA, district and council. He was selected as one of the SM's for Jamboree last year. He earned his SB. So did everyone of the others guys and gals I know that received the SB. Many didn't earn it until their own children were aged out and gone and they continued on serving scouting because of their love for the program. I'm sure it is political in some places, but not around here. You have to be nominated and the person nominating you has to fill out a fairly extensive form listing why they feel you are deserving. A committee reviews the forms and selects the most worthy. As to Rumsfeld, purely political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I think just as some have stated, Eugene Winkler vs. Donald Rumsfeld has a lot to do with it. It is awarded for "distinguished service to youth. Each year, this award for truly noteworthy and extraordinary service of a national or worldwide character is made to men and women associated with Scouting and to others not directly associated with Scouting. This award, Scouting's highest commendation, recognizes the invaluable contributions that outstanding American men and women render to youth. The service must be national in character and can be directly connected with the BSA or independent of the movement." Some who have been awarded include: Hank Aaron and Yogi Berra, Walt Disney, Bob Hope, Jimmy Stewart, Charles Schultz, Presidents (Coolidge, Hoover, Roosevelt (Teddy), FDR, Eisenhower (before he was President), Truman, LBJ, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I and Clinton), Reagan (Nancy not Ronald was one of the rare women to receive the award) , Irving Berlin, Vince Lambardi, and the unkown Scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 OK, that does it...use of the 00000 word should not be tolerated in this or any other forum! (Does it mean "hugs"?) acco, thanks for the enlightenment. I'd still like to know specifically what the "service to youth" entailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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