A major embarrassment

[fgoodwin]

Bob White writes:Youth protection program development was not a race with just one winner.I agree; I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But Trevorum implied that BSA was ahead of the curve on this issue, when in fact, they weren't, and apparently drug their feet every step of the way. Again, for those who haven't read Scout's Honor, I recommend it.

 

As far as I can tell, the author's intent is not to smear BSA but rather to report factually on the evolution of how BSA dealt with pedophiles in its ranks.Whether we were first or not is irrelevant.Again, I agree; but it might be relevant to know what the "corporate culture" was at that time and whether a tendency to "hush things up" still remains.

 

I haven't seen anything in the published articles that tells me whether or not BSA knew of this man's activities, nor do the articles mention whether or not BSA actively assisted the FBI in its investigation. We'll just have to wait and let the facts come out.

[orennoah]

Let's not be so hasty in passing, or trying to pass, this embarassment off as the bad acts of a mere BSA "employee." He wasn't the janitor. He was a major policy maker!

 

Like many Scoutmasters, I tell my Scouts that when they put on their uniform, they represent Scouting to everyone who sees them. They screw up, Scouting screws up. I also tell them that they represent Scouting when they take their uniform off, at least to everyone who knows they are a Scout.

 

How can we now say that this doesn't apply to a National Council big-wig?

 

Mr. Smith robbed each of us. He proved to be neither Trustworthy nor Loyal.

[Bob White]

So taking into consideration what fgoodwin said ..."but until all the facts come out, nobody can say how much the BSA knew about this man's background, or when they knew it.

 

and pairing it with the fact that the BSA has not been charged with any wrong doing, shouldn't the presumption be that the BSA knew nothing of his illegal activities or his character flaw until this matter was brought to their attention recentlty and they took action?

 

Why then are scouters on this thread assuming otherwise? I am awed that some want to give the defendant his time before the court before they count him guilty, but the BSA they are willing to presume as guilty when there has not even been a suggestion of wrong doing by anyone involved in the case.

 

Courious,

BW

[fgoodwin]

Bob White writes:I am awed that some want to give the defendant his time before the court before they count him guilty, but the BSA they are willing to presume as guilty when there has not even been a suggestion of wrong doing by anyone involved in the case.I don't think anyone in this thread is saying BSA is guilty of anything. But don't you find it the least bit ironic that the National Chairman of the Youth Protection Task Force would be into child porn?

 

Anyway, the question I have is: where are NAMBLA and ACLU to defend this guy?

[scoutingagain]

This is a major embarrasment to the organization. I agree with the statements orennoah made. As a scout you not only represent yourself, but the organization as well. Mr. Smith let us all down big time. He may not be convicted of a crime yet, but as BW indicates he's reportedly pleaded guilty, and the press has release some pretty convincing information. JackO has a better chance of being aquitted than this guy.

 

I was hoping this would stay within the print media, and internet but it made the morning news shows this morning. My son saw this and and just uttered an expletive. He's a proud scout in High School. He's not ashamed of his involvement in scouting and most of his friends know it. At one point I thought scouts would lose him to high school sports. He made the wrestling team and missed several scouting events. I went to one of his early matches and as he took off his warmup jacket to get ready for his match, he had a T-Shirt on over his one-piece wrestling uniform. That T-shirt? His Troop activity shirt! Boldly emblazened with the BSA logo and his unit's number. I couldn't have been prouder.

 

This morning I saw the look on my son's face when he saw this report on the news. Mr. Smith hurt my son. He may have done it as a private citizen, simply employed by the BSA, but he hurt my son, me and the rest of us.

 

SA

 

 

 

[eagle54]

The local station said He pleaded quilty here in Fort Worth, Texas-- Federal Cout and faces 5 - 20 sentence without parole.

 

He pleaded quilty to the distribution of child porn.

 

 

[fgoodwin]

IANAL, but if it is true that Smith pled guilty, doesn't that obviate a trial, meaning there will be no investigation into BSA's prior knowledge (if any) of Smith's activities?

 

So we may never learn what BSA knew or when they knew it. Not that I was relishing a trial -- in fact, getting this over and done with may be best for all involved.

[evmori]

Why then are scouters on this thread assuming otherwise? I am awed that some want to give the defendant his time before the court before they count him guilty, but the BSA they are willing to presume as guilty when there has not even been a suggestion of wrong doing by anyone involved in the case.

 

I don't think anyone wants to give him his time in court although he is entitled to it. And I think the reason others on this board are questioning the BSA is because of the way pedophiles have been dealt with in the past by the BSA.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

orennoah

Later this year (A lot later!!) I will mark my half century on this planet. That is of course God willing.

I have over the years done things that I'm not proud of and things that were not nice and wrong.The Big Fellow knows this and I believe that being that He is a very forgiving God, we move on.

I believe that Scouts and Scouting can and does make a difference in the lives of all of us that are part of it. I don't believe that sticking someone in a Boy Scout uniform makes them an angel. We do hope that the people in our programs do over time become better people because they are part of our programs.

People have very high expectations of Boy Scouts and of Scouting. We have for almost 100 years delivered the goods.

I watch the TV news and everyday there seems to be shootings and murders, in some areas this seems to be common place. Twenty years ago this was the lead story now it's a byline after the lottery numbers. But let the shooter be a Boy Scout or worse an Eagle Scout and the story takes on a new life.

I look at the volunteers that serve in the same District as I do and we seem to have a good representation of the people who live in the area. Our program is being delivered by normal everyday people, not some group of well meaning goody goodies.

You are right to tell your Scouts that when they put on their Scout uniform that people do expect more of them. You are right to tell them that because they wear the uniform they should expect more from themselves.

Still sometimes Scouting is like shucking oysters. When the oysters arrive they are dirty and muddy, some are starting to open. If you rinse them off and ice them down, they will close and be happy little oysters. Some refuse to close and die, some are "Mudders" When you open them there is nothing inside but mud and then every now and then you open one and the smell is so bad it knocks your socks off. This doesn't mean oysters are bad. A good plate of oysters rockefeller is wonderful.

Eamonn.

[KoreaScouter]

Like other forum members, I don't think this is a reason for hand-wringing. From what we know right now, the guy was drummed out as soon as he was discovered. Unless we administer lifestyle polygraphs to everybody, that's the best you can hope for.

 

I hope there isn't follow-on reporting that he did anything inappropriate with any kids...but, my experience tells me otherwise.

 

If there's anything positive in this, it may be that it's an opportunity to remind ourselves that pedophiles don't hang out at nursing homes -- they try to go where the kids are. Look around you: that's our units, and our Scouts (plus, in fairness, sports leagues, 4H, Boys/Girls Clubs, and so on).

 

This may draw some criticism, but I'm going to say it anyway. My opinion only, but based on over 20 years experience in law enforcement and related work. If you're sizing up people, women in general, and moms in particular, are a safe bet. In fact, I taught my kids when they were little, if they got lost, don't bother looking for a policeman -- walk up to a woman with small children and ask for her help. Men are a different story. I generally trust the dads who sign up with their boys, unless/until they exhibit adverse YP tendencies beyond simple ignorance of BSA policy (rule followers in general get extra points with me -- even such mundane things as "no paintball" or "no liquid fire starters"). The unknown guy who shows up at a meeting, no connection with the unit, who wants to volunteer? I tell him what we're all about, give him an application, introduce him to the committee chair...and I watch him like a Wal-Mart store detective. Again, without lifestyle polygraphs, what else can you do?

 

KS

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Hey Fred, it takes ridiculous amounts of chutzpah to twist a story about a BSA Youth Protection chairman who's into child porn into a slam against the ACLU.

The ACLU has no problem with laws against child porn, and your dishonest rhetorical question only emphasizes your complete disregard and lack of comprehension of civil rights, given that you've defended your school chartered pack excluding atheists.

[baden]

When I heard the news of this yesterday I was very depressed. I grow tired of the attempts at humor some of my acquaintances make comparing Scout Leaders with pedophiles. This just adds to it.

 

When I got on the forum I read through several posts on this topic, but many more from men and women who really deliver the program for the boys. These people have been my role models since I became involved as a Scout Leader. Other than the pain inflicted on the children, the thing that most infuriates me is the black eye this man has put on so many thousands of committed and caring people.

 

Baden

[falcon93]

This topic hits home for my area. We recently (in Jan.) had a church member/ retired postman arrested. In April, he goes to court to face 20- 25 counts of indecent liberties with a minor over a 10 year span.

 

Incidents allegedly happened both at church and on his postal route.

 

KoreaScouter is right....you have to watch people and warn the kids who to look to contact when they are lost.

 

I sat with this man in church, and we were at one time fairly close to him and his wife. After reading his tactic (used candy to lure them away) - I have seen his attempts on my own daughter.......after careful questioning of her, I feel she hasn't been harmed by him. Also, we never leave our kids out of our sight - especially in crowds.

 

You just have to be careful.

 

 

[cajuncody]

As I was looking through my scout prayer collection for a field trip prayer I came across one that seemed just right for where this thread has been and is going. I am going to put it here so some may want to skip the rest of this message.

 

Kristi

 

Scout Law Prayer

 

Dear Lord, Bless all those everywhere who contribute to shape the hearts, minds and bodies of young people. Let us remember what they have taught and apply it daily.

 

When facing deceit and dishonesty, let us be Trustworthy. If we see hypocrisy and faithlessness, let us be Loyal. Where disregard of others and mere materialism prevail, let us be Helpful. When we find people in despair, let us be Friendly. In an atmosphere of ill manner, let us be Courteous. Where some measure manliness in brutality and crudeness, let us be Kind. Though lawbreaking and rule-scoffing are common, let us be Obedient. While others grumble and grouch, let us be Cheerful. In an environment blighted by waste and extravagance, let us be Thrifty. When confronted with danger and temptation, let us be Brave. As we see filth and pollution everywhere, let us be Clean. While witnessing impiety, let us remember to be Reverent.

 

In short, in a world that has for generation after generation lamented the lack of good examples, let us, as Scouts, stand out, grow up, and be real adults. Amen.

 

[NWScouter]

If I remember it correctly, I read Scouts Honor years ago, the main story he was talking about was a man who was a scout leader in, I think, Massachusetts, sexual abused some boys in a troop there. The troop got an agreement that he would seek counseling, leave the troop and they would not report it.

 

He went to Pennsylvania (?), he joined a troop there, where he got in trouble again. This troop kicked him out and reported him.

 

Then he went to Virginia (?), where got active in a troop. He failed to fill out a BSA application. When asked to, he would take it home to fill out, then forget it. He was asked a few times, but he was so good with the scouts and so knowledgeable they just didnt press the issue to get it done. He of course abused some scouts there. They got him thrown in jail.

 

Now this was happing before or about the time that YP was being brought out. The first unit did report, the third unit didnt use the application. Both that would have stopped the whole thing in its tracks. The second unit did everything right but were a victim of unit ones inaction.

 

If YP had been in place and been followed it would have not gotten passed the first unit. It may not have happened at all.