A major embarrassment

[NJCubScouter]

I did a Google search on this guy ("douglas s. smith" "boy scouts") and the results are pretty distressing. He won various honors and awards and was very active as a representative of BSA National, and now this. And, guess who was the Chairman of the BSA's "Youth Protection Task Force?" And writing memos about it, probably using the same computer on which he was collecting child pornography? It's a bad scene, as they used to say.

 

As for "lawsuits," if "all" this guy did was collect child pornography, it is difficult to see where any lawsuits would come from. Unless there are names attached to the persons in the photos it would be difficult for the police to identify any victims. That would not stop a criminal prosecution of course, but it would make a civil lawsuit difficult. And even if there were identifiable victims and a lawsuit were filed, if the plaintiffs chose to include the BSA in the suit, I don't see how the BSA would have any liability. If he did more than "just" collect child pornography, it might be a different story.

[Bob White]

Why do some people take on others people's guilt as their own?

 

This is nothing that the BSA did. This is not a behaviour the BSA supports or teaches. This is not something we did as unit leaders. Why should you want to hide. This is an individual that broke a law who has a well known employer.

 

Do we as leaders lack that much committment to what we do that we hide from the public because an individual did the wrong thing and was stopped. Let's have a little backbone here. Condemn the crime and the criminal, not the employer or the program.

 

Is it any wonder that COs bend to the slightest outside pressure if their own leaders run and hide when they hear bad news.

 

Trustworthy, Loyal, Cheerful, Brave!

 

Let's see a little scouting character here.

 

BW

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Trevorum]

I am so glad that BSA was way ahead of the social awareness curve with regards to youth protection(although I shudder to think what almost certainly transpired in scattered units way back before YP guidelines).

 

This type of thing happens in all walks of life and we are no exception, unfortunately. As OakTree suggested, screening can't detect deeply hidden secrets. But properly followed, YP can ensure that this type of person never directly hurts any kids.

[CA_Scouter]

Anyone who tries to associate the entire BSA with the actions of one disgusting individual is not a very intelligent person. Unfortunately, there no shortage of 'not very intelligent persons' around to play up this incident, so yes, we will hear about it for a while.

 

 

 

[eisely]

I agree that BSA has no liability in this matter. It is an embarrassment, and nothing more. Anytime a person prominent in a community gets into trouble that community is tarred to some degree but that does not amount to liability for that individual's actions.

 

I agree with BW's first post that this is sad for everyone. I hope this individual will come to a resolution satisfactory to the law enforcement authorities and to his own conscience.

 

The fact is that, given the huge potential for abuse in our activities, youth protection largely works. There seem to be one or two cases each year where some BSA adult leader is accused of criminal activity involving pedophilia. The publicly available information rarely provides any detail about how those circumstances arose, but five will get you a hundred that youth protection policies were not followed in those cases.

 

Look at how the Roman Catholic church is still defending itself across the country. If the church had followed policies as strict as BSA youth protection policies, the church would not be in the trouble that it is in today.

 

We have much to proud of in how we have addressed these issues, and nothing to be ashamed of.

[acco40]

Any organization who professes to be "moral" and "just" a la the BSA, Catholic Church, US Senate, US President, etc. and then has a member deemed the opposite - Mr. Smith, Catholic Priests, Newt Gingrich, Bill Clinton, etc. - will take on potshots from outsiders and many of the insiders will feel guilt.

 

First, organizations don't have morals - people do. Second, many people make up these organizations. These individuals are not infallible. Now some of these organizations are big business, i.e. the BSA and the Catholic Church, and rely on public and private contributions for support. Stories like these, fairly or unfairly, affect these donations. That is a fact.

 

Hopefully, this individual did nothing more than view these photos and did not contribute financially or worse, try and engage with any minors. I feel no shame in this, just sadness.

[jayfromcleveland]

Bob insists:

 

"My question for jay remains, what lawyers?"

 

Gee Bob, I don't know, maybe the BSA's law firm, but I don't know the lawyers' names. I might be new to scouting and this forum, but I know how things play out in the real world. You can bet that the BSA's enemies like the ACLU will try to paint us all with this brush.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

[cubbingcarol]

acco40, if you look up the definitions for 'moral'(I used MSN Encarta) you will find that the BSA does in fact have morals, not just the people involved with BSA. At least that is the way I interpreted the definitions.

 

Carol

[Bob White]

Jay, do you believe the ACLU is involved in this case in some way?

 

The BSA is not the prosecution or the defendant in this case. They are merely the employer. If you stole a car would your employer be looking for a lawyer? This is a case of an individual who broke the law, not the BSA.

 

(and I did not insist Jay I merely asked you a queation. Others tried to answer for you but I was trying to figure out what you thought the BSA would need lawyers for in this matter.)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NJCubScouter]

jayfromcleveland says:

 

You can bet that the BSA's enemies like the ACLU will try to paint us all with this brush.

 

Here we go with the ACLU again. Actually I doubt that the ACLU (as an organization, I can't vouch for individuals) will have anything to say about this at all. (And I don't think they are an "enemy" of the BSA, but I don't expect anyone who believes otherwise to change their minds.)

[berkshirescouter]

I have read the news story and it is a major embarrassment for him, his family and BSA. However as we teach in Citizenship of the Nation you are 'Innocent until proven guilty.' Lets temper our comments until the legal system has run its course.

[Laurie]

I've been thinking that it would be good to hear more before making a judgement. If this is true, then it is indeed a sad day for the BSA. No, the BSA as an organization did nothing wrong, but there are those who do judge a group by one person's actions. Perhaps it this article should be a reminder to us all that we need to use care in all we do, for what we do does reflect on the BSA.

 

As for the ACLU, I don't care for that organization, but I also don't see how they'd take this one man's alleged actions and somehow try to use it against the BSA.

[Zahnada]

Whether it's logical or not, this type of bad press will come back to haunt BSA. It doesn't matter that BSA has nothing to do with this. The headlines already read to the tune, "Boy Scout Executive Found with Child Porn." It doesn't say, "Man With Child Porn."

 

However, I don't feel the danger here is with lawsuits or the ACLU. What is taking a beating is the public perception of BSA. Some parents will see this as proof that scouting is not a safe environment. For others, it will be the latest in a string of controversial coverage. I believe fotoscout said that this will cause diminished donations at least in the short term. I think this is correct.

 

Bob White once (long ago) commented that we are judged by our associations with others (not a direct quote, but it was to that general theme). And many parents may take this opportunity to judge Boy Scouts. However, these are all short-term consequences and I feel they will have no bearing on the long-term future of boy scouts.

[VentureScoutNY]

I agree with BW.

 

Bob White says:

 

"Do we as leaders lack that much committment to what we do that we hide from the public because an individual did the wrong thing and was stopped. Let's have a little backbone here. Condemn the crime and the criminal, not the employer or the program. "

 

"Trustworthy, Loyal, Cheerful, Brave!

 

Let's see a little scouting character here."

 

That just needed to be re-posted for eveyone to really read and think about.

 

scoutldr, you should not worry about what your co-workers think. Let them know what the BSA stands for and it is not what that sick twisted man stood for. Let them know what you stand for and they will be jealous with envy.

 

We are all Scouters here and I know we all feel pride in the BSA. This guy won't take my faith away, he strengthens it and makes me more stedfast in the things I believe in.

 

YIS

 

[KurtB]

BW,

 

I agree with a large portion of what you said, however, reality says that the BSA will at some point seek legal advise. You are correct in the fact that they were just the employer. You asked if my employer would seek out a lawyer if I stole a car. If I was employed as an auto mechanic (quick examples of semi-related industries that came to mind), and there is even a remote chance that what I did may have taken place "on the clock" - I don't know of a responsible employer that would NOT seek council (at least for advise).

 

We do not know the full story. We may NEVER know the full story. Let's see how it plays out, and remind everybody that brings it up - one bad person does not represent the entire body of Scouting. And while you are reminding them, it may be a good time to let them know that we are always looking for volunteers with good moral character -maybe volunteers just like them...

 

Just my $0.02

 

Kurt