Fat Old Guy Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 boleta, I make my living by identifying what is wrong with systems of many types. BSA is just another system and I see the flaws in it. On the other hand, Bob White, who has memorized far more handbooks than I ever will, views the BSA system as flawless and considers those who criticize the system to be disloyal and bad Scouters. In his mind, those who have not been anointed to sit on the national committees are not capable of making judgements on how well the system works. Bob White also considers looking at old publications to be a great waste of time because the current handbook is the best handbook ever and the old handbooks have bad information in them. He keeps yapping about "tourniquets" and how the old handbooks gave dangerous information about them but my collection of handbooks goes back to the 30s and if you consider my copy of "Scouting for Boys," it goes back to 1908. Oddly, I can't find anything about tourniquets that is much different than what they teach today. Odd, no? Someday you may have the joy of expressing an opinion that is contrary to Bob White's way of thinking and then you will really get to know and love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 "Is he Jason? Is he the Dude? Is he 27 or 64?I did correct him and suggested he forgot arrogant, too." I don't know of many people in their mid-60s that would know of Oingo Boingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT376Richmond KY Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Perhaps it's my South Central KY and christian upbring or that when I was a Scout Scoutmaster Woods taught me that "Dars folks in dis world dats just plumb ignorant. Dey try n cause trouble where ever dey can and trya ropin you into it. Don't you be let em, Take da high ground and don't bea stoopin to dar level." When I see these so called "scouters" post what I consider onfensive post I just don't read them. No one's twistin my arm anyway. I mean Bob took one of my post using f/u incorrectly in a way I never intentioned. He stated on this forum something that my use of foul language led him to the understand my character. I didn't get upset I simply sent him a note as to his interpretation was incorrect that f/u in my profession of Nursing means follow up mean time another poster on this forum pointed this out to him. I did take the high ground and in my PM to Bob explained this and appologize that he misunderstood the meaning of my post. Did I need to, well in today's world no I did nothing wrong, it was his intrepretation that was incorrect not my use of an accronym. But the moral thing to do I my opinion was to take care of an obvious misunderstanding and explain something that obvious was not intented to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I have had the pleasure of disagreeing with him. The difference in our opinions gave me some insight as to the problem I was trying to solve. (The issue was Blue Cards). I still disagree with his answer but understand his position and why he took it. I do appreciate your clear answer to this. It helps me appreciate your oblique answers to some of the posts. Must be your quirky sense of humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 "BSA is just another system and I see the flaws in it." No one said it is perfect by any means. Just gets us back to the recent threads on dissent in the BSA doesn't it? Some see the changes as bad (you seem to like the older ways), some as good. Some would like to change it radically- feel good for all. I would just like some answers. Rules seem clear until someone says- have you considered it this other way? That's part of what the Forum is all about. The other part is discussion and... well, fellowship. Most of us will never actually meet. So who cares what I think about any given issue? It's when you look at an entire thread with a variety of opinions- yours, Bob White's, and even mine, that answers emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Me Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Look, Bob White and Eamonn(sp) are not the problem. They are like Rail Road tracks, you know where there are coming from you know where they are going and most likely that haven't been laid in 100 years. Jason OK is a problem. He is erratic, volatile and prone to lying. Actually the score 2-1 and the good guys are losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 How scoutlike! The forum has lost. This year we have lost 3 good resources, I see no one that can step up and fill the vacancy. I would just suggest everyone here consider this just a forum now, do not expect to get any correct answers here anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHour Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 dan, Maybe I'm a little bit naive, but I don't see that all is lost. Scouter Terry has created this forum for the all scouters and scouts to help each other. Granted that dsteele, BW & Eamonn's knowledge will be missed, but this is the same as a pack that just lost its Cubmaster and Committee Chair or a troop without its Scoutmaster and Committee Chair. The pack and the troop simply don't fold. The remaining adults step in, roll up their sleeves, and set the pack/troop forward. All the guidelines, rules, and policies have been written down. The only thing that is missing is the experience and by the looks of it, there are plenty still on this forum. If we were to add up the numbers of years of scouting experience that we have here on the forums, it will easily surpass 10,000 years of experience. If I were to ask about what is a good pfd or a stove or a tent to buy for the troop, I'm sure that someone will recommend one based on their experience. If you were to ask about how to deal with an ADHD scout or a great scout or ..., you'll get plenty of responses. Granted that we will not get the immediate answer to the BSA rules and regulation; however, someone will answer and others will verify and validate. Of course interpretation of the rules and regulations is still wide opened. We still have the likes of Barry, OGE, Ed, you, Mike F, LauraT7, fotoscout,txscoutdad, dancinfox, SR540Beaver, scoutmom, KoreaScouter, FOG ... . We also have new names that contribute such as boleta, UncleGuinea, etc. I have been associating with this forums since January 2002 and I have read my fair share of uggliness that this forum has to share. One thing that I do notice is that people tend to take things to the extreme and a lot of times get sucked into the debate that they are realizing that they (themselves) make no sense. We are aware of the fact that we do control our own destiny. Hence, I am still around because I pick and choose what, whom, why I respond in this forum (230 posts since 2002 ... I was an innocent by-sitter for a while)! Hopefully, those resources will return, but in the mean time there are plenty of scouting newbies who are just sitting there reading and learning. This pack/troop must go on for the new recruits. YIS, 1Hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Gentlemen Some very good points have been made here.First the BSA has evolved over the years and has changed as society has changed, the core values stay the same but thats it. Look at the disasterous experiment of the 1970's where the BSA emphasized Urban Scouting, it didn't last long. Trying new uniform styles was another change, no one seems totally happy with this one either. Every organization must accept change or stagnate, the BSA has changed and will continue to do so, some good some not so good. As far as Bob and Eamonn are concerned they were good old time scouters with a wealth of information that will be missed. On the other hand their vision of scouting was stuck on an ideal model that doesn't exsist and never has. Scouting is only as good as the leaders directing the program, many are great , some really struggle, and some should be removed, this creates a program with a great diversity to meet the needs of a group of kids in vastly different environments. I think Bob and Eamonn struggled with this feeling that one model does not fit all. I think Bob was much more open than Eamonn was to new ideas though and I will miss his insights especially. I disagree with Dan however that all is lost, there are many in here with a lot of experience to share. I also bet that Bob and Eamonn will be rejoining us soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 OneHour: Thank you for mentioning my name, but there's no way I could ever fill Eamonn or Bob White's shoes. I'll do my best and contribute what I can, however. Dan: I read some of this WHEELER's stuff. I didn't like the threads. Is that what drove the #3 resource person you mention out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 "Some see the changes as bad (you seem to like the older ways), some as good." I dislike change for the sake of change and I usually see no reason to change things that have worked for 50 years. They suposedly changed the handbook to make it appeal more to the youth. How? By removing text and putting BIG pictures in. I sit on quite a few boards of review and I have seen just about every handbook in my troop (around 60 registered Scouts) and most show few signs of being read. Now, I wouldn't say, "stick with canvas tents" just because we've always used canvas tents. However, knowing how to make a shelter out of a tarp is still a useful skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHour Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I meant to mention many others senior and junior members, but it will take me quite awhile. So, I hope that ... and etc ... will fill in the remaining names. By the way, I thought that most Brits are fairly stout-hearted ... so as what I thought of Eamonn. Let's get back to the basics. See you all in another thread. 1Hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 BadenP Where in the world did I say all was lost?! DO NOT put words in my mouth! Lets stick to facts ok! onehour Who could I look to find the resources I need to try and get a unit on the same page? I am not looking for experiences I want the rules and where to find them. And sometimes the interpretations from someone I trust that understands the program. Do not get me wrong I like a good story, but it is only a story. UNC The other person moved, not sure why he never came back. I do not think it was an issue with the board. Yes there are many good scouters on this board OGE has great ideas, his last little comment was, Sounds like a teachable idea! WAS GREAT. UNC seems good, LauraT7 is not around much Where ya been? SR540Beaver is really good also. I know I am missing some, but they all are missing one thing, and that is ALL of the knowledge that BW and E has. I do not think BW should came back to this forum, there are 3 people here whos only goal in life seems to be to disagree to what BW has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 "The other person moved, not sure why he never came back. I do not think it was an issue with the board." Probably a lack of time or his new boss frowns upon spending work time on the internet. " there are 3 people here whos only goal in life seems to be to disagree to what BW has to say." I'm vain enough to think that you're including me in that group. If you are, you're wrong. I've often agreed with Bob White and my goal in life is to be shot by a jealous husband when I'm 97 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHour Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Hi dan, You asked: "Who could I look to find the resources I need to try and get a unit on the same page?" I can only speak for myself. I usually look to my good friends in our District and my Executive for the resources when I need to get my unit on the same page. They are fairly good in getting the answer if they don't know it themselves. I guess that I am fortunate to have a great district executive. I, too, look to Bob White, dsteele, and the likes for questions and answers from time to time. Apparently, you have been at scouting for a while and since 2001, you are practically one of the corner stone of this forums. You are probably one of the first ones to join the forums, even earlier than Bob or Eamonn. I'd say, you would be the one of the candidates to share your knowledge. Remember Bob offers out-of-band questions and answers. You can share with the rest of us of your findings. Cheers, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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