Bob White Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 dancinfox has pointed out that I know the rules as if that were a bad thing. Actually I don't know all the rules though I do know most of them.(It would seem silly to me to be a unit leader, commissioner and trainer for nearly 30-years and not have learned the rules of the game we play.) So when an issue arises on the forum regarding the four areas controlled by the BSA with policies: Safety, Uniforming, Advancement,and Membership, I simply go to that resource and look it up. Why don't more leaders do that? I have no idea. Why would anyone volunteer and choose to either not learn or not follow the rules that govern the organization. I am baffled by that as well. I do not mind filling the role of resource person. I know is where the rules are found, and again it would be silly if after all this time I hadn't learned that as well. But dancinfox and a few others seem to ignore the program information I have shared, and they focus only on the rules. It's odd also that those posts I make concerning the rules are usually in response to posters asking a question to which the rules apply. Yet, when I say this is the BSA rule in this BSA resource there are a few posters who want to argue them. They are not my rules. They are not ours to make or ignore. We chose our jobs we accepted the responsibility. So many posters whine about the fact that they cannot get scouts to do what hey should and yet the leaders refuse to do what they are supposed to. Go figure. I too enjoy Eamonn's posts as well, if you notice we agree on methods and leadership styles pretty much 99% of the time. We have different writing styles. Wouldn't it be boring if we all wrote with exactly the same voice. Not looking for any response to this post, just wanted to offer some clarity to to what I felt was a myopic view of my contributions here. Just one last point please. There have been three posters in the last couple weeks who have inferred that I am not an active scouter. Just to set the record straight, I have been and continue to be a unit leader for the past 28 years. Currently I am an assistant scoutmaster, but I have been a SM, Den Leader, and a Cubmaster. So I would appreciate a halt to those insinuations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Bob, I for one appreciate your explanation of the rules of Scouting and have yet to find a significant disagreement when it is fully explained. However, there are many aspects of Scouting that are subject to interpretation. When the requirement says "make a satisfactory effort" and the SM says it can only be made by holding a POR in the troop, well that is his opinion of a satisfactory effort. There are many other examples where the Scouter's interpretation is quite different than what your explanation is. With close to 5000 posts and 30 years of experience, your opinions engender significant respect from ME even though, in the end, I may disagree with you on how to handle the problem. (The Blue Card issue is a good example). In considering your explanations, I usually end up agreeing with them. I really like the Forums because of these discussions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 BW, I wish you had referenced the his post. I did a search and found one where he complimented your knowledge of the rules and he said he enjoyed your posts. He did say he thought you were a little rigid (my words, not his), but over all he seemed rather supportive of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Bear Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Bob White, Your knowledge of the rules is exceptional and helpful in most every situation. You have the ability to write clearly, concisely, and quickly. Your intelligence is evident but not always appreciated. There is little doubt in my mind that you have experience in Scouting and that you are an asset to the units you serve presently and in the past. Although your emotions are generally seen in direct proportion to your lack of the use of spell check, they are seldom observed. I find you as a stimulus to improve my own knowledge of the rules of Scouting and to find answers that I have not pondered. You are a good influence on the likes of people like me. Keep up the good work. Sincerely, Fuzzy Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red feather Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 no problem here BW. Keep a posting and keep fighting the good fight. You have my respect. yis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Thanks for the kind words Bob. I do think that it is worth mentioning that we don't go out of our way to agree with each other. I remember when I first came along to the forum that I said that it would be a joy to have someone with your knowledge on the District Committee. I still stand by that. I feel sure that anyone who spends any amount of time in the forum does over time form their own opinion about the value of what is posted and rightly or wrongly a opinion of the person who is posting. Unc. Made the point this week that the backspace key is a good tool. Sure there are times when I wished I had used it more. However somethings are just so far out it is untrue. Remember the Lady who wanted to track Scouts bowel movements at Summer Camp? Yes I know hat my reply could have and should have been a lot kinder and I was and am guilty of not living up to out Scout Law and Oath. Sure there are times when I sit here and shake my head when someone asks a question and you give them the answer and to my way of thinking their answer ought to be "Thank You" But instead the answer is a heated and sometimes nasty debate. There is lots of room for debate. As most people know I'm not a great lover of Troop Rule Books. Needless to say I think that I'm right. I am not so dogmatic as to think that everyone who has such a thing is a complete blithering idiot. I try to stay out of the politics forums, mainly because I think this is a Scouting forum. However I do read them and at times am drawn into the debate. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinfox Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Bob, I don't want you to get angry at me. I appreciate your knowledge of the rules and policies of the BSA. I don't ignore the program information as you state. I enjoy receiving the information. And I did not point out that you know the rules as if it was a bad thing. I never said any such thing. I feel you are very knowledgable and commend you in helping people out on this forum. Please don't take what I say as a slam to you, it isn't. I just made an observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinfox Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Bob, I don't want you to get angry at me. I appreciate your knowledge of the rules and policies of the BSA. I don't ignore the program information as you state. I enjoy receiving the information. And I did not point out that you know the rules as if it was a bad thing. I never said any such thing. I feel you are very knowledgable and commend you in helping people out on this forum. Please don't take what I say as a slam to you, it isn't. I just made an observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 3, 2004 Author Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hi dancin, My question is why some posters, yours I felt had a hint of this, equate knowing the policies with not delivering the program. I give the reference location for the policy and posters argue with me over it. I didn't write them, I just looked them up or learned them through experience. Yet several posters attribute the rules to me personally. You for instance did not say that you appreciated the information I shared. You used my information on rules as a contrast to Eamonn's friendliness and assumed I lack compassion because I know where to find the policies. I do not lack compassion for people who do not know the rules. I lack patience for leaders who know them yet do not follow them. For those who do not know the rules I am happy and willing to help. For those who refuse to learn the rules or refuse to follow the rules, I say "please go screw up someone else's program". The hypocrisy of a leader who wants Scouts do do what the leader requires, yet the leader refuses to do what the BSA requires, burns my patience no end. They are a waste of space in a scout uniform. Now will Eamonn ever say that? Maybe not. Do you think he gets aggravated by scouters who don't follow the rules?. I'd take that bet. I think to help people you need to be honest with them. When posters ask questions I try to give factual helpful answers. When the question is about policy I give them the actual policy. Sometimes incorrect or basless answers are given by posters who present them as fact. If I know they are wrong I post the facts and the resource. Some posters purposely avoid the facts in order to fan the emotions of the poster and make for more "exciting" threads. I find that insulting t everyone else. So to those few I call a spade a spade. I don't get what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinfox Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Bob, Your right. I didn't mean to imply or create a contrast to Eamonn's friendliness and if I did, I am truly sorry. I am sorry I said you have no compassion. Bad choice of words. I do understand the lack of patience and what ignoring the proper program can do. I don't think my post had a hint of what you said. I did say in my post that I believe in delivering the whole program, whether I agree with some or not. I don't want you to think I don't agree with wha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinfox Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Sorry, I seem to be losing my posts. continued. I don't want you to think I don't agree with what you said, I do agree. A friend of mine who is a retired Marine and Airforce Sargent once said to me. "Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell and them looking forward to the trip." I try to use this when dealing with someone or somethings I can't change. Again, I am sorry. Dancin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 3, 2004 Author Share Posted July 3, 2004 I plead guilty to lacking tact. If I ever tell a person to go to hell I will have no concern as to the quality of the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinfox Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 LOL, I understand. Thanks. Dancin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wojauwe Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 I came into forum a week or so ago and my first experiance was very frustrating, and I didn't handle it very well.I had a controversial viewpoint on OA and Venture. I wasn't perfect in my terminology.These imperfections became the focus of the responses.My frustrated responses and attempts to qualify statements only got me deeper into directions I never intended.I was attacked for my contempt for rules and proper terminology.I don't have that comtempt but the focus on my imperfect terminologies seemed to be taking things away from the meat of the issue. Towards the end ,Eamonn did come in with an argument that got to heart of the problems that I wanted to hear input on.It was so tedious getting to that one point,I decided to pull out of thread. Yes it is important to follow the rules,to wear uniform properly and use the right terms.It's just that I feel there may be more important things to focus on sometimes(note this does not mean throw the rules out). I thought this was an informal forum.From what I had seen in some browseing it useually is.There does seem to be a tendancy to attack the wording of posters who dissagree with a popular point of view.My "favorite" technique used is the practice of copying lines and responding to a line out of context,sometimes with the effect of totally twisting a poster's message. I do hope this is not taken as an insult to any one.It's not intended to be an attack,just a personal observation after limited exposure. YiB, Quilawalensitchewagan Wojauwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hey! Don't take it so personally. It's a FORUM. Discuss or don't discuss. If someone is too boorish, you can always ignore them so you don't have to even read their post. Better yet, read their post but don't respond to it. One new member has been very controversial. I finally clicked on the "ignore this user" button and was surprised to find I was the 8th member to squelch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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