BSA Bylaws, Rules and Regulations

[jkhny]

Just where does one get a copy of the Byalaws and the oft-referred-to "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America"? They used to be available in the major Scout Stores but they're not there now and no reference can be found on Scoutstuff or any place else? Where can you get a copy?

 

Seems like these been relegated to "Top-Secret" Status.

 

We've got some serious issues at Council level and are looking for answers. Nobody seems to want anyone to see these items.

[Bob White]

We seem to have this conversation crop up every few months on this forum.

 

The rules and regulations that refer to the operation of a scout unit are not found in one place but are in a few easy to find resources that need to be in every unit library.

 

 

The Youth Handbooks

The Adult leader Handbooks

The Youth and Adult membership Applications

The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual

The Guide to Safe Scouting

The Unit Money Earning Application

Local and National Tour Permits

The Insignia Guide

 

 

The BSA Rules and Regulations is available ofr viewing at your council office and has the bylaws of incorporation that details how councils and districts are formed, their legal responsibilities, how officers are sellected and elected etc.

 

Are your questions related to Council operations or unit operations?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[jkhny]

There are a number of issues of concern. Our SE first alienatd a large number of volunteers over the sale of a now Council owned facility - this action is being fought in the courts. This is a waterfront facility with a pool - its used for swimming, boating, sailing and scuba and is the site of summer camps and events. It was donated with a trust fund for upkeep and maintenance. THis facility could NEVER be replaced.

 

We've seen almost all of our area's assets sold off over the years - for millions of dollars - but somehow Council always needs money. If enrollments are up, why are they still selling? Where has the money gone?

 

There are clear attempts at "retaliation" by the SE - with long serving volunteers being removed from positions. One District currently has its top position delliberately left vacant. A long serving Assistant District Commissioner with 25 years in Souting was replaced with a novice Cub Scout Leader. Complete unknowns are anmed to District and Council positions while volunteers with decades of service are shoved aside. Nominating committees for Districts are "stacked" to obtain these results. Political "loyalists" do what the SE wants.

 

Letters to local papers protest some of these actions but things haven't broken wide open yet. The SE seems to be rewriting the rules and doing what he wants. Aren't SE's supposed to SERVE and SUPPORT the volunteers?

 

There has been a wholesale replacement of paid staff - pormpting a massive outpouring of support for one fired staffer in particular. A web site set up in her support has hundreds of entries - many calling for the removal of the SE.

 

There are also rumblings about a leader having his registration revoked. No reason was given for his removal - the local unit he's in had nothing to do with it. But he vocally - and validly - criticized the SE at a District Meeting. The reasons for his removal "have nothing to do with boys" and he can "remain involved in any Scouting activities as a parent." Anyone ever heard of anything like that?

 

Units are boycotting Council fundraising - popcorn sales and FOS. Things are near open revolt. The SE told staff to "get rid of problem volunteers and find new ones that will raise money for us." Units are avoiding Council - some going to summer camp out of state.

 

This SE is only 2 years into a 6 year contract and has managed to unify a diverse volunteer base against him. Some accomplishment.

 

Even members of the Executive Board feel that the SE has exceeded his authority. However, it seems like even the Executive Board has been "stacked" - it's heavy on "suits" and light on those with real Scouting involvement and experience. Like too many "corporations" of late, we've got a CEO running out of control and a board that could care less.

 

Over 100 volunteers showed up and an exec Board meeting in protest and were basically told they don't count for much - the SE and Board can do what they feel is best.

 

"Rules and regulations" used to be readily available - but not now. It seems like lots of rules and regulations are being violated but if you can't get a hold of them....

 

BTW - National could care less. Appeals have been made but this is a "local" problem.

BSA is a big non-profit corporation & our Council has the same orientation. Focus is on money and "numbers" - that's what boys are to them.

 

[Stan Riddle]

If the majority of the Exec. Board, volunteers, Council Pres. and Council Commisioner feel as you do, then efforts should be undertaken to remove him. He works for Scouts, and the program, not the other way around.

 

The "old timers" I suspect still have a lot of support and trust from the Council. Many of them probably trained those who are in position now.

 

It has been done before.

 

 

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[scoutingagain]

In another thread we had a relatively in depth discussion on BSA governance and who has a say in what. From that discussion I got the impression that volunteers and scouts have very little say in what goes on beyond the unit level. If you want to influence the program beyond the unit level you need to involve the chartering organizations. Get Charter Organization Reps and the Charter Organization Institutional heads to speak up. My bet is they are more likely to be listened to at the council and national level.

 

Good luck.

 

SA

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

jkny,

While I cannot address the specific of your situation I might be able to shed some light on some common misconceptions that seem to be present in your concerns. This should not be misunderstood as my personal support of what is going on, just information that may help you to understand it better.

 

"Our SE first alienated a large number of volunteers over the sale of a now Council owned facility"

 

it is not a "now Council owned property" It is just a council owned property. Only the council "owns things" not the district. The district is just a geographic sub area determined by the council for the sole purpose of assisting administration of the BSA in a community. The District is not a legal entity.

 

"If enrollments are up, why are they still selling? Where has the money gone?"

 

Because as membership grows more resources are needed to serve that membership. resources cost money. so the more youth served the more money needed to serve them. On average a council spends about $130 per scout to maintain its current level of program. That money comes from numerous sources: popcorn sales, FOS, United Way, endowments, and activity fees are the most common. Now that will just keep the program going this year. I am hopeful you would want to see the program in your area have a solid financial foundation for years to come and to grow in services and resources.

 

If membership is up but FOS, United Way and other financial resources are declining in total then the Council has no choice but cut costs. Campos are expensive to maintain but property can raise capitol. So unfortunately selling properties is an effective way to lower costs and raise money at the same time.

 

"One District currently has its top position deliberately left vacant. A long serving Assistant District Commissioner with 25 years in Scouting was replaced with a novice Cub Scout Leader."

 

That decision was made by the District Commissioner, a fellow volunteer responsible and empowered to select his/her own assistants. Regardless of the outgoing volunteers years of service, if he wanted accomplishing goals or fulfilling his responsibility the DC has every right to replace him. It is highly unlikely that the SE had anything to do with that.

 

"No reason was given for his removal"

 

And for reasons of the volunteers right to confidentiality none will be given. Stay out of the rumor mill, that is no place to be in order to serve Scouts or Scouting.

 

"Complete unknowns are named to District and Council positions while volunteers with decades of service are shoved aside."

 

Sometimes people lose their skills, some do not keep up with program growth, some forget too much of what they learned. things change. I would not say these newer scouters are complete unknowns. Somebody knew who they were enough to select them for the job. You need to trust that the people responsible for making those decisions are doing the best they can as volunteers and professionals.

 

As you pointed out, the membership is growing, so somewhere someone is doing things right. Who is an Assistant district commissioner has zero effect on the quality of your next unit meeting. That is where the focus of unit volunteers need to be.

 

"Even members of the Executive Board feel that the SE has exceeded his authority."

 

If that were true they would fire the SE and hire a new one. They are board of directors for the council and are the only local body with the authority to do that.

 

"However, it seems like even the Executive Board has been "stacked" - it's heavy on "suits" and light on those with real Scouting involvement and experience."

 

That is the case in pretty much every council, especially the best ones. The role of the executive board is to operate the business of the non-profit corporation. They do not do program work. that is the job of the district/council activity committees and the unit leaders themselves.

 

" Over 100 volunteers showed up and an exec Board meeting in protest and were basically told they don't count for much - the SE and Board can do what they feel is best."

 

I would hope it was presented better than that. Scouting is a multi-layered cooperative effort by volunteers and professionals alike, with different positions having different responsibilities and authority.

 

As a unit leader your primary job is serving the charter organization and the scouts in that unit. But you need to cooperate with the other layers of scouting for it all to work. And the other layers need to cooperate with the unit.

 

Your unit has a voting voice in the District and Council administration. That person is your Charter Organization representative. You need to make sure that they are fulfilling their obligation and attending these meetings to vote for what they thinks serves their charter organization and the BSA the best.

 

" "Rules and regulations" used to be readily available"

 

I'm sure they still are available in the exact same way they have always been. They are at the local council service center for review. But you need to know that nothing you have shared suggests in the slightest way that any rule or regulation has been violated. Your SE may lack people skills but that is not a BSA violation.

 

"Appeals have been made but this is a "local" problem."

 

That is absolutely correct it is a local problem. Just as your unit has a charter for one year so does the Council. Each year every volunteer position in the council comes up for renewal with national as does the council as a whole. It is it's own non-profit corporation separate and distinct from the BSA national council (which is separate from the national office). each Council signs an annual agreement to franchise the BSA program and become the local legal representative of the BSA.

 

"BSA is a big non-profit corporation & our Council has the same orientation.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

Focus is on money and "numbers" - that's what boys are to them.

 

Sorry jkhny, but that is purely emotional rhetoric and I doubt you have any facts or experience to support that remark. Do you know anyone who works at national? What they do specifically? How they feel about the youth they serve? What there commitment is to the people and the program they serve. Based on you current misconceptions I would have to surmise that you do not.

 

There are only a relative handful of scouting professionals who service, maintain, and support a membership of over 6 million in nearly 300 councils of the BSA located all over the world.

And they do this while we all go off to work in our own careers each day, and from time to time we get to gather together over coffee to bad-mouth professional scouters whose jobs and responsibilities most volunteers barely comprehend.

 

Our Council sold three camp properties 25 years ago. most scouters at the time moaned and swore and predicted the end of scouting in our council. We are bigger, better and financially stronger then ever before. Yet of the few of us still around who went through it, some still waste time bemoaning what was instead of helping to create what is.

 

Get your Charter rep to the Council meetings and get the unit volunteers back to focusing on the next troop meeting and the next adventure.

 

Hope this helps,

Bob White

 

[NJCubScouter]

Bob, you make a number of assumptions about what is happening in jhkny's council, but you really have no idea whether what you are saying is true or not, regarding some of what he says about his particular council. Is the money from the land sales being used for what you say it's being used for? It probably is. But you don't know that it is. It may well be you are correct that the SE did not actually remove the ADC. But you don't actually know it. It could well be that all sorts of things are wrong in the particular council, money is being "misplaced," the SE is acting in a dictatorial manner, the Executive Board is not going their jobs and letting the SE run amok. Maybe it isn't, maybe it is. Whichever it is, you have no more of a clue about it than I do, because neither of us is there, and neither of us even knows which council it is.

 

The advice you give jkhny, that his CR should be active in council meetings, is of course correct. (Maybe, by the way, he is the CR, I don't think he actually said.) But I think he might go further than that. If things really are this bad, and the CR after some period of attending meetings agrees, then the CR can see whether other CR's want to take some action. Of course this gets us back to the bylaws and the fact that unlike most of what the BSA puts in writing, this is not made available for the people who are "governed" by it to actually read in the privacy of their own homes or meeting places. You have to go to the council office and ask for it. In another Scouting-related forum, I heard that someone went to his council office (and since that person identified himself by town and state, it happens that it was my council as well), whoever he asked consulted with the SE, and the SE came rumbling out of his office demanding to know why this person wanted to see the document. At least, that is what the person reported. Now, if that sort of behavior is typical, it means that the document is essentially "secret," because who wants to go through that sort of intimidation in order to read something?

 

But anyway, and this is to jkhny, once your CR (the person who has a vote at the district and council level) does find out what the structure is, when elections are held and for what positions, he/she can see if other CR's have the same concern. It may be that they decide to elect new members to the Executive Board or whatever other positions there are to be elected. (I'm not really positive who gets elected, because I've never read the Bylaws, not that I have gone so far as the guy in my council who got grumped at by the SE, and actually tried or anything.) If that is the appropriate action, and it actually happens, and if the SE is actually running amok as you seem to describe, then new people will be in the positions of ultimate authority in the council, and corrective action can be taken.

 

[FScouter]

There are some publications available at the Scout Shop that do a good job of discussing the organization and function of councils:

"The Council" #33071D

"Council Nominating Committee Worksheet" #33156A

"Orientation Guide for Council Officers and Executive Board Members" #33161B

They're not fast-moving items, so you may have to call the supply division at (800) 323-0732 to order them.

[Bob White]

"Bob, you make a number of assumptions about what is happening in jhkny's council,"

 

On the contrary I made no assumptions on his specific situation and said so in the opening of my post.

 

"Is the money from the land sales being used for what you say it's being used for?"

 

I never said where that money was being used, only that the sales of camps reduces costs and makes money. Read the post again.

 

"It may well be you are correct that the SE did not actually remove the ADC. But you don't actually know it."

 

That is I wrote "It is highly unlikely that the SE had anything to do with that." Rather than the SE had nothing to do with that. Read the post again please.

 

" It could well be that all sorts of things are wrong in the particular council, money is being "misplaced," the SE is acting in a dictatorial manner, the Executive Board is not going their jobs and letting the SE run amok."

 

Now who is making assumptions? jkhny never said money was being misplaced. He asked where it was going. There is a big difference. YOU assumed it was being misplaced but no such accusation was made by jkhny. Where is the evidence that the SE is being allowed to run amok? None has been offered. What evidence have you that the executive board is not doing there job? You have none, other than those which you have assumed.

 

SEs come in all shapes and styles, some are dictatorial some aren't. The executive board has the authority to fire him if they so choose. They have not chosen to do so at this time. Why? I do not know, and neither do you of jkhny.

 

So you see NJ you have inferred far more into this than I.

 

I am glad you agree with me that it is the responsibility of the voting members of the council to deal with whatever the situation is.

 

"this (the rules and regulations)is not made available for the people who are "governed" by it.."

 

Unless you are a voting member of the District or Council, you are not governed by this book. As a unit leader we are governed by the Oath and Law and the program policies of the BSA. Not the Rules and regulations of the corporation.

 

"I heard that someone went to his council office..."

 

Shame on you to base an opinion on rumor. I would think that you of all people would know better than to do that.

 

"Now, if that sort of behavior is typical"

 

You don't even know if that behavior even happened remember it was hearsay. How can you even ask that question after you even said that the premise was unfounded.

 

'm not really positive who gets elected, because I've never read the Bylaws,"

 

Then perhaps a little homework is in order before you discount another persons posts on the subject?

 

" the SE is actually running amok as you seem to describe"

 

Shame on you again. Give us one iota of evidence presented in the post that suggests the SE has done anything wrong, other that jhnky's comment that "The SE seems to be rewriting the rules and doing what he wants".

 

Which rules has he re-written? By your own admissions neither of you even know what the rules are. So exactly what is the SE guilty of. Be specific counselor not emotional.

 

jhnky deserves facts and information to help him to understand the situation and make clear decisions and all you are doing is supporting the emotional agitation being felt by him and others. he deserves better help then fear mongering. You admit you have no knowledge in this matter other than it is the responsibility of the voting members of the council to deal with the situation.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[jkhny]

Everyone is making lots of assumptions based on their pov. However, I am also getting the feeling that getting one's hands on "rules and regualtions" my initial question - is NOT easy - deliberately so.

 

A free and open society (American values)or an organization espousing those values should NOT have anything to fear by having such information readily available. What's to hide.Other BSA publications sure reference them enough.

 

Those that presuppose that BSA is always right and that those pesky volunteers simply don't understand do BSA a disservice. In my experience, the long serving volunteers that are the core of Scoouting are far more true to its values than the paid staff who come and go. Paid staff want to make their goals and move up. The volunteers are in it for "the boys" and "Scouting" - for the long run.

 

A paid for facility - on prime and irreplaceable waterfront property - WITH a trust fund for maintenance and upkeep is a jewel that should be preserved for perpetuity. It will never be replaced. Selling off such assets is the act of a desperate organization that is failing to address fundamental financial issues - or one that is looting those assets. Asset sales alienate large donors and continue a downward spiral in the donor base. Popcorn sales cannot make up for wholesale alienation of major contributors.

 

The SE IS directly responsible for wholesale changes in staff and volunteer positions. HIs actions are NOT for any justifiable reasons. Replacing an ADC with a complete novice was a direct act of retribution. NO long term volunteers would take the position, so the SE had to use whoever would take her place.

 

There is NO justification for leaving a District position vacant. That DIstrict has been the most vocal critic of the SE - denying them a voice at COuncil Level is retribution.

 

As far as enrollment being up and the SE doing "something right" - demographics dictate the pool available - and though enrollments are up - they're up because there are lots more kids. Actually, percentage wise, out of the numbers available, I don't know if there's any real growth. Nobody's looked at it that way.

 

Since fund raising is way down - specifically because units have chosen this as the most direct method of registering protest - something is clearly very wrong. A SE that inspires units to boycott Council fundraising may be unifying volunteers but not in a positive way for Scouting.

 

I'm not trying to rabble rouse. I'm concerned. And the answer to my initial question was not reassuring. If Council is the "keeper of the rules and regulations," lots of luck in getting a good look at them if you're questioning the actions of the SE. So, just why aren't they available through supply or elsewhere anymore? What is the justification for limiting access?

 

No more responses from me. I'm off to summer camp.

[Bob White]

jhnky

Please consider these points carefully.

 

" I am also getting the feeling that getting one's hands on "rules and regualtions" my initial question - is NOT easy"

 

Forget feelings..deal with facts. The fact is there is a copy of rules and regs at every council office that any member can go look at.

 

Forget the hearsay offered by others the fact is the bok is there, feel free to go look at it.

 

In my experience, the long serving volunteers that are the core of Scoouting are far more true to its values than the paid staff who come and go.

 

I do not know what your experience is I can only speak from mine and I am one of those "long serving volunteers" you speak of. If you think being a scouting professional is a "get rich quick scheme" then someone was lead you seriously astray. No one becomes a DE in the hopes of money fame or glory. It is a difficult, time intensive, goal demanding, high turnover, often thankless job. As far as who is in this for the long run, volunteers spend an average of 5 years in the program. 5 years! More volunteers will come and go in your scouting tenure than professionals in your council.

 

"Paid staff want to make their goals and move up. The volunteers are in it for "the boys" and "Scouting" - for the long run."

 

Since when is wanting to do well in your job a bad thing? We teach our scouts to "do their best" is that not supposed to count when they get a job?

 

Those that presuppose that BSA is always right and that those pesky volunteers simply don't understand do BSA a disservice.

 

Wouldn't you think that those volunteers who do not take the time to learn about the program and the organization they joined do a greater disservice that the ones who take the time to learn?

 

There is NO justification for leaving a District position vacant. That DIstrict has been the most vocal critic of the SE - denying them a voice at COuncil Level is retribution.

 

If this ADC position is the one you are refering to when you were talking of a key position...it isn't one. A District Commissioner can have as few or as many ADCs as they choose or none at all.

 

And an ADC is not a voice on the Council Level either. Her or she may serve on a council committee relating to commissioner service, but they are no graeter a voice than any other council sub-committee member and they have no vote or voice on the executive board.

 

Actually, percentage wise, out of the numbers available, I don't know if there's any real growth. Nobody's looked at it that way.

 

Sure they do that is a common statistic that every district committee gathers each year, you just don't know it because that is not your area of responsibility. You really have little idea what goes on beyond the unit. And thats fine. As a unit volunteer you need to know the unit program. But if you are going to make accusations about the Professionals, and volunteers ant the other leves you should have the courtesy to learn about what they do and how they do it, BEFORE you start casting your arrows.

 

"Since fund raising is way down - specifically because units have chosen this as the most direct method of registering protest - something is clearly very wrong."

 

Sorry jkhny but if you guys were armed you'd be shooting yourselves in the foot. You are purposely sabotaging the fundraising, forcing the council to cut services and raise money by selling properties, and then you complain about them doing the very thing that YOUR actions have now caused them to do.

 

"If Council is the "keeper of the rules and regulations," lots of luck in getting a good look at them if you're questioning the actions of the SE.

Who says to go in and tell them you are questioning the actions of the SE. Why not just say you want to learn what is in the book?

 

"So, just why aren't they available through supply or elsewhere anymore?

 

What do you mean "anymore" when did you think they were avalibale any other way?

 

What is the justification for limiting access?

 

They are the National rules that control what the council does. they are they council's resource. They have nothing to do with unit program . All those resources that effect the unit are in ample supply.

 

"No more responses from me. I'm off to summer camp"

 

I hope your scouts have a great time. While you are there look around and think about all the money that your long term dedicated volunteers have chosed NOT to raise to help insure the camps future.

 

Your greatest enemy is not the SE but your anger lack of willingness to learn about the administrative side of scouting.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jkhny]

Not to rebut all points, but we have had only one SE last more than a term - 12 years I think. They're on 6 year contracts.

 

We have MANY MANY 20, 25, 30 and 35 year volunteers. Our Community has many ranging from 5, 10, 20 up to a 50 year that just died. Many serving at Council and District level have had VERY high level and successful business careers - careers with far more responsibilities than our SE. Frankly, many of these volunteers have or hold far more important and prestegious positions than some of our Executive Board members.

 

And these volunteers are paid nothing for the long hours and effort they put in.

 

This SE seemingly came from a poor background and is doing pretty darn well at the present. This is an affluent area and a large council. He's paid well "for a poor kid from XXX" as he so often says and well for this area compared to many with comparable management positions. He's been ambitious and has a history of agressively "climbing the ladder" on the backs of others - as too late research has shown. He's a great salesman but a horrible leader.

 

Past DE's were focused on money and numbers too. They have 3 year contracts. One troop was kept on the books with 6 kids and 2 adults and the roster padded with ghosts because they didn't want to lose a unit. DE's had number to make. There are lots of similar cases.

 

A DISTRICT CHAIRMAN position was left vacant, not a mere Commissioner or ADC. - on purpose. That position is supposed to be the Council's voice at the Council level. One of two Vice Chairmen for that Council is totally unknown to Scouting with no experience.

 

When a SE instructs DE's to "get rid of long term volunteers and get people who will raise money for us" he's showing what he cares about.

 

And visitors of any kind are not so welcome in Council Offices. You now have to be "Announced" and escorted.

 

No amount of spin can make any of this look good.

 

Even BSA makes some big mistakes. Unfortunately, they can be hard to clean up and do real damage - not just to a local area but Scouting itself. Refusing to acknowledging what is wrong and justifying or excusing it does no service to Scouting

 

Personally, I try my hardest to give people the benefit of a doubt, but this SE has been horrible for us and horrible for Scouting. When someone can unite HUNDREDS of people - quite literally - in universal loathing, I rather doubt that there's been a misunderstanding.

 

I'm gone. I rather doubt this SE will show up at camp this year. He ran out of a meeting he tried to hold last year when everyone started hitting himm with questions he didn't want to answer. A good leader commands respect by his actions. A poor leader tries to intimidate others into obedience.

 

 

[evmori]

NJ,

Ya never learn, do ya! Bob White is always right and never assumes anything! Everything he posts is accurate & if you question him you are wrong for doing so! His interpretation of the rules & regs is always correct!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Jhnky

 

You need to understand tha your biggest problem is a personal lack of knowledge of the BSA structure. NOTHING you have brought up so far is a violation of a rule or regulation. You certainly have several frustrations, but most are of your own creation.

 

As examples:

 

They're on 6 year contracts.

 

Actually they are on whatever contract period they negotiate with the council executive board, and like most contract it can be renegotiated and or extended before it ends.

No rule violation!

 

We have MANY MANY 20, 25, 30 and 35 year volunteers. Our Community has many ranging from 5, 10, 20 up to a 50 year that just died.

 

And you have several volunteers for each of those veterans who left the program before you even had a chance to meet them

 

serving at Council and District level have had VERY high level and successful business careers - careers with far more responsibilities than our SE. Frankly, many of these volunteers have or hold far more important and prestigious positions than some of our Executive Board members

 

So what? You have proved that differently people have different jobs. Is it your contention that the quality of a person is based on the prestige of their professional position? Or that to have less prestigious persons on the board is a violation of the BSA rules?

 

and these volunteers are paid nothing for the long hours and effort they put in.

 

Thats pretty much why we are called volunteers isnt it?

Not a rule violation!

 

This SE seemingly came from a poor background and is doing pretty darn well at the present. This is an affluent area and a large council. He's paid well "for a poor kid from XXX" as he so often says and well for this area compared to many with comparable management positions.

 

Certainly you are not suggesting that working his way up from a poor background is a violation of the BSA rules and regulations.

 

He's been ambitious and has a history of aggressively "climbing the ladder" on the backs of others - as too late research has shown. He's a great salesman but a horrible leader.

 

Perhaps your evaluation is correct, BUT that is still not a violation of any rule or regulation.

 

Past DE's were focused on money and numbers too.

 

You really do not understand do you? The role of the DE is to increase membership, manpower and monies to support the program.The quality of the program is your responsibility as a volunteer.

 

 

They have 3 year contracts.

 

Thats because after three-years they become eligible for promotion to Senior DE .

 

One troop was kept on the books with 6 kids and 2 adults and the roster padded with ghosts because they didn't want to lose a unit. DE's had number to make. There are lots of similar cases.

 

There are similar situation everywhere. The local Scout executive has the authority to determine the eligibility of a charter on a case by case basis.

No rule violation here.

 

A DISTRICT CHAIRMAN position was left vacant, not a mere Commissioner or ADC. - on purpose. That position is supposed to be the Council's voice at the Council level.

 

A District chair is one voice a district has on the board. The district has many voices including all the charter representatives we spoke of earlier.

 

One of two Vice Chairmen for that Council is totally unknown to Scouting with no experience.

 

I do not think you will find Vice-chair as an official position of the district. It is a worker-bee position created by the District Chairmen to lessen his workload.

 

When a SE instructs DE's to "get rid of long term volunteers and get people who will raise money for us" he's showing what he cares about.

 

If that persons responsibility included supporting the necessary fundraising activity to keep a council going, and that person refused to do that part of their job, then they should be removed.

 

It would be no different then if a den leader refused to hold weekly den meetings. If that was the job expectation and they refused to do it then they should be removed.

 

And visitors of any kind are not so welcome in Council Offices.

Are the doors locked and barred? Is a secret password need to enter the building?

 

You now have to be "Announced" and escorted.

 

jhnky, think about thisits a business office. How many companies do you know where a person can walk in off the street and wander wherever they want???

The council office records have the contact information on Thousands of children, your children!!! The Council has a responsibility to maintain a certain level pf security because of that.

 

No amount of spin can make any of this look good.

 

The only spin here is from you. You are using a total inexperience to the structure of scouting to create trouble where so far none exiss according to your total lack of real evidence.

 

Even BSA makes some big mistakes. Unfortunately, they can be hard to clean up and do real damage - not just to a local area but Scouting itself. Refusing to acknowledging what is wrong and justifying or excusing it does no service to Scouting

 

Even volunteers make big mistakes. You have made a sizable one here.

 

Personally, I try my hardest to give people the benefit of a doubt, but this SE has been horrible for us and horrible for Scouting. When someone can unite HUNDREDS of people - quite literally - in universal loathing, I rather doubt that there's been a misunderstanding.

 

Now that you have given him the benefit of the doubt, how about giving him the courtesy of knowledge and give yourself the gift of knowledge. You really have no idea how the BSA is structured, operates, the positions of responsibility or their duties.

 

I'm gone. I rather doubt this SE will show up at camp this year.

 

Not a rule violation!

 

He ran out of a meeting he tried to hold last year when everyone started hitting him with questions he didn't want to answer.

 

If he was met with the same denial of facts that you have displayed I would not blame for leaving once the hitting started.

 

A good leader commands respect by his actions. A poor leader tries to intimidate others into obedience.

 

A good leader does not need to either command or intimidate. Respect is a mutual relationship that must come from both directions. How much respect are volunteers showing if the base their opinions on as little knowledge as you have shared thus far?

 

Take time to learn about the corporate side of scouting before you continue to assault a situation that you do not understand.

 

Have a good time at camp.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)