Eagle Scout's 3-day party cut short by Laconia police

[Jason OK]

I have seen more Eagle Scouts get their rank too FAST! Helped too much by their daddy! Or an Eagle Troop Factory. "Men, it doesn't matter how old or mature they are, just em' get out!" I think there should be an age limit and longer period of time you must remain Life in order to mature enough to be able to respect the RANK of Eagle. Also, you can learn how not to write run-on sentences......

 

Take Eagle away from him! Or strip him down to Tenderfoot and let him earn it all over again.

(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

There is nothing wrong with the requirements for Eagle. If a scout earns eagle at 13, then he is an Eagle scout. If a scout gets Eagle at 13 because the troop advances him along without a thought towards offering a quality program, then its the troop that is at fault, not the scout. If the father "Horns" in, then its the father's fault and the troops responsibility to redirect the fathers energies. I am squarely against setting an age limit for the Eagle rank. I am for assuring all aspects of a troops advancement program is up to BSA policy (without going over of course). There are some posters on this forum who made Eagle at a relatively young age, should he have been held back because some adults cant follow directions?

 

Currently I beleive 4 out of 100 scouts become eagles. I have seen this number quoted anywhere from 2-5 percent, I am open to correciton. But for arguments sake, lets say it is 5 percent. That means 95 scouts out of 100 will NOT make Eagle. 95 out of 100 and to think some think Eagle is too easy to attain. 95 out of 100 do not make it. If a scout is gung ho, let him rip it up, why tell him no?

[Jason OK]

I personally have seen numerous boys from different troops, that made Eagle, that were not ready for it. I will refer to the subject post.

 

Eagle Scout's 3-day party cut short by Laconia police

 

I am glad the military does not allow 17 year old enlistees to become General at the age of 17 or 18 or 19 or 20 or 21 or 22 or 23 or 24or 25

 

Although an extreme example it works.

 

I think gung ho or "whatever" is awesome but I also know Men shouldn't become fathers until they can handle the responsibility. Thus, the old Father Son Proverb. "Son unless you wanna ruin your life early....keep it zipped up!" LOL Same idea. You get it?

 

Obviously Eagle is not just a rank; it is a life long responsibility.

 

How many 13 year olds do you know that can handle that kind of responsibility?

 

My opinion. Eagle is OK 16-18.(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[Eamonn]

A scout who becomes an Eagle Scout has had to have had met the requirements. If he hasn't then it is the fault of a great number of adults.

Do kids make mistakes? - Yes of course they do.

Do kids who have just graduated make mistakes? - Again yes.

While we would hope that a boy who has been and maybe still is in a Scouting program and holds the rank of Eagle Scout, would be less prone to make mistakes. They are going to. The boys in this underage drinking party made a mistake. They will be punished in what ever way the state they live in deals with this sort of thing.Still we know from working with people in this age group they are going to try "New" things, they are going to experiment with new things. We know that unlike when they were little Lads we are not going to be there to hold their hand and that some of what they may experiment could kill them.

Sticking a kid in a Scout uniform and allowing him the opportunity to work through the Advancement program is hopefully going to provide him with the tools to not get into trouble. But how many of us if we were to be really honest are known as being good, because we were lucky - Lucky that we never got caught.

Scouts, even Eagle Scouts are not Angels.

Eamonn

[Jason OK]

Eamonn,

I can agree with your post as much as I do with mine.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

I could be wrong, Sister Anthony Mary (Sam to those of us who held her dear, I think that was all of her students), always said I could improve on my reading comprehension, but as I read the story that started this thread, I get the idea the Eagle awardee is 18 years old.

 

Now, as has been discussed, this guy may not be Eagle material, but he 18, how would an age limit of 16-18 have helped this situation?

 

Eagle mills, and I am not sure I have actually seen one, I think are most often the figments of someones imagination. I could be wrong, but the troop I am plesed to be allowed to serve has been a termed an Eagle mill by some. When you have had over 60 scouts per year for some 5 years, you tend to produce Eagles. Blams it on a combination of fiercely devoted scouters who love working together and a dynamite program and voila, you get Eagles. Its not the intent of the troop, its a side benefit. When a troop is as active as we, you tend to produce Eagles. Age limits would do nothing but treat the symptom of a poorly run program, but it would not prevent the scouts from advancing when they hit the magic age.

[Jason OK]

OGE,

 

Good point but nothing that hasn't already been posted...in fact I agree.....but don't think Eagle Factories aren't out there. Age limits can cause advancement problems as the rules exist. That is why I think the Eagle program should be re-written. My opinion. Sometimes to see the forest we must step away from that ol BSA tree. My Opinion. Here comes the witch hunt. No I Don't float!

[scoutldr]

Here's a question that should make National very uncomfortable:

 

The Scout has "avowed" in a public interview that he is not "morally straight", and sees nothing wrong with illegal behavior that puts himself and others at risk. How is this any different from an avowed gay or atheist, other than the fact that what they do isn't illegal (in most states)?

 

The reaction should be the same...swift, and sure. Or are some moral deviants more "acceptable" than others?

 

HMMMMMMM?

[EagleInKY]

Oh, where to begin? If the story is accurate - and it is not being embellished by a press corps bent on making scouts look bad - I have a number of issues with this young man. He is not living up to the principles of scouting and seems to show a total disregard for abiding by the law. His own words are what bother me the most.  Here are a few samples (in case they slipped by you the first time).

 

It was going great till the cops showed up, he said.

My friends said can we bring alcohol. I said yeah, why not?

We were just having fun, and I dont know why its such a big deal.

The drinking age is 21 ..., but he said nobody pays attention to that. Why not? Cause were kids.

I was aware of the fact that what we were doing was illegal, but I didnt think it was that big of a deal.

Im pretty sure. Youd have to be kind of dumb not to realize. 

Thats kind of why I had it be a three-day party, so nobody had to drive. They could sleep if off and then go home later. 

I wasnt doing anything illegal.

I wasnt going to say no, no one can have fun tonight. Sure, why not? Drink. Its harmless. As long as youre not driving drunk or going swimming or something.

I kind of wanted to have a fun time. I just graduated from high school. But adults just cant seem to let that happen. Im curious how the five cops and Carl up the street had no childhood apparently and cant let us go. 

Yeah, sure its illegal. Lots of things are illegal. Speedings illegal.

Disregard for the law, for authority figures, for parent's rights, for health factors, etc.  The list goes on and on. 

[Bob White]

Scoutldr

 

Why would that question make the BSA uncomfortable? Do you think they have never had to confront difficult questions before? Do you think this is the first youth or adult member to do something wrong? There have been over 110-million members in 92 years. Do you really believe this is the toughest thing they ever had to deal with?

[Eamonn]

I feel sure that everyone in this forum would agree that what this Lad did was wrong.

I was looking over the book that new drivers get from Penn dot(PA Department of Transportation)OJ is counting the hours till he get his permit. In the book it says that a party where underage drinking is allowed will cost the home owner $1,000 for the first teen drinker and $2,500 for every other underage drinker.A party for 17 teenagers could cost $41,000. I don't know how well off the Paula family are? I sure as heck would hate to write a check for $41,000.

I have been to gatherings where children have asked an adult for a taste of their adult beverage and seen foolish adults give it to them. Only recently I was talking to a Lady who said that her 13 year old had come home drunk, but she didn't say anything as at the time both her and her husband were drunk.

There are boys in Scouting who come from families like this and some of these Lads against all odds reach the rank of Eagle. Their climb without the parental support can be so much harder then the Lad from the middle class loving home.

Sure our expectations from Scouts in general is higher then what might be expected from non-Scouts, let alone a Lad who is an Eagle Scout.

Still we in this forum don't know the boy, we don't know his parents or anything about his home life. It is all too easy for us to pass judgment and pass sentence. But I for one really do know squat.

Eamonn

[thanes]

LACONIA The Laconia Police Department is winning support for its decision to be among the first in the state to prosecute an individual under a new law that makes it a misdemeanor offense to host an underage drinking party.

 

Police Chief Tom Oetinger said many calls of support have come in since the decision was announced.

 

He said the case has also generated interest in LPDs ongoing efforts to combat alcohol abuse by minors.

 

"I have received more positive e-mails and phone calls on this particular incident than I have in my entire time as chief," said Oetinger on Thursday.

 

Oetinger succeeded Bill Baker as Laconias top cop in August 2002.

 

The incident took place June 26 when police, responding to a noise complaint at 17 Methodist Circle in The Weirs, found 23 people under the age of 21 in various stages of intoxication.

 

The owner of the house, John B. Paula, 49, of Nahant, Mass., was charged with prohibited sale of alcohol to minors. He is to be arraigned in Laconia District Court on Aug. 12.

 

The calls and e-mails have been coming from "all over the state" said Oetinger, and their general tenor is that the LPDs decision to bring a case under the new law "is appropriate, even that this is necessary, and something that has to be done to change peoples opinions or attitudes that its acceptable to allow teenagers and minors to drink."

 

Hearing that message from outsiders is comforting, the chief said, because "for me, this is what Ive always believed."

 

Keeping the issue "in the public eye" may change some public attitudes about underage drinking, said Oetinger.

 

In addition to the LPDs vigorous enforcement of state liquor laws, Oetinger is working to assemble a group representing law enforcement, parents, students, educators and alcohol retailers to battle alcohol abuse by minors through educational outreach programs.

 

Since that initial arrest on June 26, police have broken up two more parties involving underage drinkers and in each case arrested a person for hosting it under the states new law.