BSA and Dissent

[Bob White]

You are getting warmer SA,

 

Like with most organizations the representatives that are currently Charter Organizations determine the membership rules. Those members are represented by The CORs, and selected representatives, that sit on the BSA Executive Board.

[NeilLup]

I believe that the correct organizational structure to consider for the BSA is a franchise operation.

 

The National Council grants a franchise (charter) to a local council with exclusive rights to administer Boy Scouting within a particular geographical area. That local council then recommends various local organizations (sponsors) to be granted franchises (charters) to administer the Scouting program. Those franchise holders can either agree to carry out the program the way that the franchisor directs, or they can choose not to accept the franchise. If they fail to carry it out, their franchise can be removed.

 

The key point is that, unlike GSUSA, the franchise holders (sponsors) are independent, separate organizations. The unit is their organization. It does not belong to the National Council or the local council. The only clearly quantifiable authority that the National Council has is the ultimate authority to remove the franchise. Almost all other authority is "jawboning" authority.

 

Not unlike McDonald's restaurants.

 

However, within McDonald's restaurants, when a major franchise holder walks in and says "I own 200 restaurants and I think this should happen." Mickey D sits up and takes notice. If the franchise holders representing 50% of the restaurants think something should happen, then McD listens extremely hard. The same thing is the case within the BSA. The BSA wants to keep its major franchise holders happy and will do what it believes is necessary to keep them happy users of Scouting.

[SR540Beaver]

scoutingagain,

 

The sad fact is that many charter organizations simply provide a place for a unit to meet and that is the extent of their involvement with scouting. They provide a COR who rubberstamps registration forms and decisions made by the unit. While COR training is provided, our district training chair told me this weekend that he had no one show up for the last COR training and has only trained two COR's in the last year. There are some charters who are very involved with their unit, but from my experience and discussions with other scouters, it is the exception, not the rule. It would appear that the COR's know less about scouting than the people at the unit, district or council level, yet have more input. Go figure.

[scoutingagain]

SR540BEAV,

 

I'm well aware some COs have little involvement. I'm a member of a unit whose CO is somewhat involved but not to the degree they should be.

 

Those COs that choose to be more vocal members, particularly at the national level, would seem to be able to influence the policiy agenda more so than those that are less vocal. Or a group of COs or franchisees of like mind, as in NielUp's example.

 

SA

 

 

[Bob White]

If I am understanding Neilup correctly, he is saying that the more active and involved a Chartering Institution is, the more weight it will carry in local and national decision making. I would have to agree. In fact, I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

 

[BadenP]

I just wanted to add my two cents worth. First I have experienced Scouting as both a volunteer and a Professional Scout Executive so I have seen both sides. Are there some things that could use some change, sure there are. Should the BSA be undermined because of them, no way. Everyone has a right to disagree, but as one of you said ,"never in front of the youth." I am a Venture Advisor and the COR for my unit, we have changed many things in our district and council through our COR meetings, after getting feedback from leaders in our district. Find out who the COR is for your unit and invite them to your meetings, get them active with you and the council. It is, and always be my strong belief that Scouting is the best youth program offered today, even with its problems, many of which can be handled on a local level. You have an open line of communication with your council and Charter org. use them and watch what happens.

[Eamonn]

Here I go again with that wet blanket.

Bob it sounds like you are saying that the squeaky wheel will get the grease.

While many of us are aware that some of our Chartered Organizations are bigger then others. In that they charter more units or have more youth that belong to their church or organization. It might seem that these "Big" Guys have more say and more input then say some other organizations that may not be as big, or have been around as long or as vocal.

I would hope as Scouting becomes more diverse, which I feel it will we as an organization will be more open to new ideas - whatever they may be. We will not be driven by the size or loudness of any given Chartered Organization.

I am in no way even suggesting that we ever change the "Core Values" Of Scouting, but embrace the diversity that is heading our way.

Yes the squeaky wheel will still be represented but there is and will be enough grease for all of our chartered organizations.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

Not all Eamonn Quite the contrary.

 

I am saying that the more active and productive a Charter Organization is the more it will be appreciated and listened to. it's not about being the whiney, squeaky wheel. It is about being the forward moving, smooth action, axle that keeps the wheels of scouting turning, that will get an organization more input.

 

Let others have to tolerate squeaky wheels. if you want to do things with the BSA on levels beyond unit service then you need to know how to move things forward.

[boleta]

An organization that does not evolve with changing times will fail to survive.

[Eamonn]

Thanks for clearing that up Bob.

Glad that we are both on the same page.

 

I can't help thinking that we have maybe got into this a lot deeper then Hunt had intended.

While I would welcome his correction, I think that he was asking that we as a group in this forum try and be a little more flexible or understanding.

I'm not saying that it is going to happen or if it is a good thing or a bad thing.

Eamonn.

[NeilLup]

I don't think in this case that it's a matter of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

 

A better analogy might be that the party that buys 10,000 cars is much more likely to get cars designed the way that they want than is the party that buys one car.

[Eamonn]

Neil

While I agree that we should be working to move ahead smoothly and whining and "Squeaking." Is not the way to do it.

I do so hope that we never forget the mission statement and allow the "Big Guys" to rule the roost.

These Organizations that may be the 10,000 car buyers to day, may over time give way to car buyers from elsewhere.

We can never allow the car to be designed just to fit their needs, we need a car for the masses

We only have to look at our big cities to see that things are changing. As things change we have to be prepared to make changes.

I happen to think that so far the BSA as an organization is on the ball. Not because it is catering to any special group or groups, but because it has brought on board a lot of talented people with a lot of insight.Add to this the work that is being done at the Council, Regional and National levels by some very hard working professionals and I for one am not going to paint a picture of doom and gloom.

Eamonn.

[BadenP]

I would agree with most of what you all have been saying. One big complaint I hear all the time is that the BSA program and policies are too slanted towards the needs and desires of the Mormon Church, who is the largest Chartered Partner in many areas of the country. That the Mormons run their scouts through award mills turning out 13 or 14 yr old Eagle scouts who have not really earned this highest honor in Scouting. In my council their programs are given a blind eye by the professionals because of their large financial support. What do all of you scouters feel about this? Do you feel this is true? I know many good Mormon scouters who tell me they have witnessed this in their church troops. When I was a DE with 45% Mormon units in my district I tried to integrate all youth and adult training with non Mormon units and leaders, but their was always a core of Mormon scouters who did their own thing and we were told to let them do their own thing. Many of the youth and adults became angry on how fast the Mormon scouts and scouters earned their awards. As hard a time that I have with this I still believe we need scouting for our youth. In my current district the roundtable is held in a Mormon stake house and the Venture crews that are co-ed are not allowed to ever be a color guard since it is not in line with Mormon scouting guidelines. This has been a real irritant to me, anyone have any suggestions?

[boleta]

The Morman families I know (of which I am not one) are very cohesive and goal oriented. I think the rapid advancement that is seen in their units is not because they make it easier for the youth, but because they encourage it and promote it. A good friend of mine has 5 boys, all of whom are Eagle Scouts. I believe each of these boys earned the rank without question.

[LovetoCamp]

Do Mormon kids listen to Slipknot?