Jason OK Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Islam is a real religion. And I respect its right to be so. As long as it does not harm me or my loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 "And concerning Feminazi....Rush never coined the phrase." In case there's a bit of confusion, Jason OK has a little 'crosstalk' with the topic on political party affiliation. I mentioned that Rush Limbaugh originated the term "feminazi" in a response to OGE. Here's an authority: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Feminazi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason OK Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 MMMM I guess it is not the word "Feminazi" that is in question. I believe the term "coined" tripped me up. I remember hearing the term Feminazi before I ever turned on Rush. I believe there was a low budget (B) movie in the 80's about them. (on motorcycles hahaha) Rush may have made the term "Feminazi" a House-hold term but I remember hearing it before listening to Rush. ScouterPaul, Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilleez Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 How someone can respect a religion while simultaneously thinking that every single person in it is fundamentally wrong and is going to hell is something I may never understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 How someone can respect a religion while simultaneously thinking that every single person in it is fundamentally wrong and is going to hell is something I may never understand. EXACTLY. That is exactly why I dont respect every religiononly every persons right to pursue a religion of his/her choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Achilleez, that is the dilemna, isn't it? Perhaps the very issue that Hunt was addressing when he first posted? I have a strong faith that is not shared by many of my family members and friends. I respect the person who has a different faith and the right of each person to choose his/her faith. My religious teaching is that all people are valuable and precious as well as that all people have the capability to do evil things. In other words, we are equally valuable, precious, wonderful beings who are equally capable of evil. I've shared my faith here before, so I won't repeat myself. But respecting a person, caring about a person, that is not the same thing as accepting for myself all that that person believes--not when it comes to religion, not when it comes to politics, not when it comes to how to raise children or choose a career path or plan out the day. When it comes to the BSA, I can indeed be passionate about my faith and convictions, just as others can be passionate about their faith and convictions which might be very different, but we all should keep the main focus on the program -- and the program is the one thing all of us in Scouting have in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Jason, I think you are thinking of the classic, Surf Nazis Must Die, made by Troma Studios, home of such classics as Toxic Avenger I Toxic Avenger II Toxic Avenger III Video Demons do Psychotown I Was a Teenage TV Terrorist Fat Guy Goes Nutzoid and a whole lot more (Toxie. the Toxic Avenger, the only superhero from New Jersey was "born" when a shy underweight towel boy was stuffed in a container of bootleg toxic waste and dumped in a swamp in New Jersey, its brillisnt schlock as is Nuke'Em High Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 OGE, please oh please, I hope you're makin' that stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Laurie, In regard to respecting others vice their religious or political beliefs, VERY WELL SAID. In regard to having a passion for faith and the BSA, we diverge slightly. I have PASSION for my faith and God. I like the BSA. Theyre not on the same level to me, not even close. Perhaps I misinterpreted your words here. No matter, I agree that we should run the program as prescribed by the BSA (it is their program) i.e., we should not exploit it for our own means. Still, there is probably room for legitimate debate as to exactly what the BSA has prescribed. Thats a can of worms that I dont really want to open, but I believe it to be valid. For example, some folks seem to feel every public prayer ever offered at a BSA event must be generic. I dont believe that to be a BSA policy and no one has yet to show me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Rooster, It is a volunteer organization. If the person leading the event or public prayer wants it to be Christian, (or Hari Krishna or whatever) it is their prerogative to do so. But, they should respect the beliefs of others (as is REQUIRED by the 12th point of the Scout Law) and allow for other forms of expression, if desired. If no one wants to have an additional expression of faith, so be it. If they want to not participate in your prayer because it offends them, they can not participate. But, to not allow for these alternatives is the problem that the religious members of BSA do not seem to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleta Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 At a recent Camporee, the Sunday morning assembly was running late. After announcements, the religious service began without any oppportunity for dismissal or break. An Evangelical Christian minister was brought in to conduct the service. Needless to say, it was quite offensive when he told a significant number of the Scouts and adults that they were going to Hell if they had not accepted Christ. I don't care if you feel this to be the TRUTH, it may not be your neighbor's truth. The youth leader and adult advisor of the event had a number of apologies to make at the event review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I can appreciate someone who is willing to provide alternatives. Yet, I dont think that has to be done for every circumstance. Every Scout should be allowed the opportunity to express himself, including in prayer. And I would hope that most leaders are not afraid to make that happen. I dont necessarily believe it is warranted or practical to give every Scout the same opportunity on every occasion. For example, say you have 9 Scouts on a campout that is going to last three days. It seems appropriate to me if a different Scout was encouraged to offer his own prayer prior to one of the meals. Thus, every Scout is given the opportunity, but not at every meal. If this means one specific faith or denomination is represented more than another, then so be it. As youve already indicated, every Scout is free to not participate or to silently say his own prayer. Religious freedom does not mean one must be exposed equally to all faiths. In a nation, which proclaims to be 90% Christian, that is not a practical reality. It would also mean that a majority of individuals would have to suppress their religious expression in order to maintain that so-called equality. I have nothing against equality, but equal exposure to something does not make one free or even equal in status. Nor is it fair when the population is not perfectly divisible by demographics. However, everyone has the right to embrace the faith of his/her own choosing. I respect that. And I respect the policy (whether it is written or not, I dont know) that we as leaders should provide every Scout with an equal opportunity to express his faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Boleta, As I understand your last post A Scout (and an adult leader) organized a religious service at a BSA campout with a Christian evangelical message, which was previously advertised to be and/or was presumed by those in attendance to be, a generic religious service with a generic message. When those in attendance discovered differently, they were offended by the message and annoyed with the organizers. Given this specific example, I understand. I agree that the Scout and the leaders in charge acted inappropriately and without regard to those that they were supposed to serve. Yet, I feel there are times when such a service could be acceptable in a BSA setting. For example, if all Scouts are given the opportunity to organize such a religious service, and the nature of the service is advertised in advanced. That is to say, when equal opportunity is afforded and the organizers dont plan any surprises. Also, just to be clear, I dont believe truth is a function of ones personal preference. If I am confident that I know a truth i.e., the sun is always bright and water is never dry (absolutes which I refuse to yield as being anything else) Im not going to refrain from speaking it, simply because someone within earshot strongly opposes the idea that these things are realities. Why? Because they are realities. I may refrain for other reasons, but it wont be because Im afraid to offend my neighbor who believes in a different truth. A different truth is an oxymoron. This phrase has no validity. Those who refuse to use logic and/or engage in reasonable discourse invented it (no offense intended). Hiding the truth to avoid discord is not an option. Harmony is great, but not when the truth has to be sacrificed to achieve it. I cannot state this strongly enough by definition, there is one singular truth. A statement or belief that directly contradicts the truth is a falsehood (by DEFINITION). Perhaps my rant on word meaning stems from semantics. When you say - truth, you might really be saying, ones belief as to what is true (not necessarily the same as truth). If so, then you can ignore my little lesson on this topic. However, true as that maybe (insert smiley face here), I disagree that we should keep our mouths shut because someone believes differently (in order not to offend). Truth should always be preserved. But please note that I have separated this thought from the first section of my post. I dont feel it is my right to use BSA events as a platform to spread the truth to those who dont want to hear it. And that my friend is the Gods honest truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Rooster, If a unit is a "closed" unit that only allows boys from the charter (church) to join, then a specific denomination service is obviously in order. I can't see an LDS unit having a Jewish, Catholic or Baptist service. However, Boleta said in his post that this happened at a Camporee. We have hundreds of scouts at our Camporee. There is no way, no how that they all come from the same religious background. A Camporee service needs to be fairly generic. My preference is to use Old Testament scriptures that complement a point of the oath or law. That at least covers Christians of all walks, the Jewish scouts and those who profess a belief in God but are unchurched. Here in Oklahoma, that covers the majority of scouts. But depending on how it is presented, it is more of a talk on a point of the oath or law backed up by a "Bible story" to illustrate the point and shouldn't be offensive to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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