Question for the atheists who post here

[Eamonn]

Some of the atheists who post here seem to have made trying to get the BSA to change its policy on God / Supreme Being their mission in life.

I was wondering, do you people only have it in for the BSA?

Are you also putting as much effort into fighting for the abolishment of the Chaplain Service in the United States Military?

Are you fighting the establishment of the White House office of faith-based and community initiatives?

Eamonn

[Deloe]

Perhaps you could explain how not wanting to have one's tax money support an organization constitutes "having it in" for that organization. And from what I've heard, in these "faith-based initiatives", "faith" exclusively refers to "Christian". And Bush has said that he will look FIRST to faith-based initiatives. So, yes, I do oppose this as well.

[Fat Old Guy]

Eamonn, atheists hate anything to do with religion even more than Arabs hate Jews. Why? Because they are desperately trying to convince themselves that they are right. They work as hard as they can to not believe in a supremem being when the evidence that there is a supreme being is all around them. They are much like the flat Earth folks, working very hard not to believe the evidence so they can cling to their erroneous beliefs.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I agree with Deloe, and I think the bigotry expressed by FOG illustrates how the Boy Scouts encourage hatred against atheists.

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Merlyn, do you beleive the behavior exhibited by some soldiers at Abu Grahib to be representative of all the soldiers in Iraq? In the entire US military?

 

 

[whitewater]

Merlyn said: ...I think the bigotry expressed by FOG illustrates how the Boy Scouts encourage hatred against atheists.

That's a ridiculous argument and I hope you know it.  If that is valid, then it would also be reasonable to assume that if the BSA allowed homosexual leaders, that Scouts would be in danger of being sexually abused by them just because there might be a few cases of such a thing happening.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I didn't say that all scouts hate atheists, but that the BSA encourages hatred against atheists, and FOG exemplifies that.

 

For example, there are plenty of posts by BSA members disparaging atheists in general, but few posts by other Scouts objecting to such wholesale insults against atheists.

 

And it's obvious that FOG's insult about atheists drew no response, but MY remark about the BSA drew quick objections.

 

And some of you still question why I don't want my own government to fund Scouting programs? Do you think it's OK with me for a program that breeds hatred against atheists to add injury to insult by using my tax money to pay for it?

[whitewater]

I don't think the BSA breeds hatred for atheists. I've been involved in Scouting for over 30 years in various capacities and locations and I have never seen anything remotely like what you are accusing us of.

 

The negative attitude toward atheism that you are experiencing is brought on by yourself, not any BSA indoctination. Virtually every Scouter on this site devotes hundreds of hours a year to providing a program for boys that they strongly believe in.

 

You've come into our "community" and virtually denounced the BSA as an evil organization because they discriminate against atheists and gays. And then you are surprised because you receive a negative reception? And then you have the gall to blame that reaction on "an organization that breeds hatred".

[buffalo2]

Whitewater I think that you hit it on the head when you used the term 'ridiculous'

Find a hobby folks...

[Eamonn]

And your feelings toward the Chaplain Service are?

Eamonn

[Big_Dog]

I kinda' look at it in the same way as if I were to go to a forum that supports planned parenthood and started railing against my government using my tax dollars to fund the wholesale slaughter of millions of babies. What kind of response do you think I would get? No, it isn't fair that my government forces me to be a part of that, but going to a forum that supports it won't do me any good. And, BTW, if you don't believe in God, or life after death, why waste the few precious years you have here arguing with folks that do? You better enjoy the here-and-now for that is all you have!

 

bd

[Hunt]

If an atheist said the following, I think the response would be different:

 

"I don't believe in God, but I do believe in ethics, values, and helping others. I believe that I could contribute to Scouting, and I believe that Scouting could contribute to the ethical and personal development of my sons. The only barrier to my participation and that of my sons is the religious requirement BSA imposes. While I realize that it's within the rights of the organization to have such a requirement, I would like to urge it to reconsider that requirement, and to extend its "ecumenical" reach to persons who, while they don't revere any divine being, do revere the ethical and moral principles embodied in the Scout Law."

 

A similar statement could be made (and has been made) by people who would like BSA to change its position on gay leadership.

 

However, most people who don't like BSA's policies don't use such an approach at all. Rather, they believe that BSA's policies are based on "ill will," and that some forceful means must be used to make BSA change its policies. This, of course, just makes BSA circle the wagons on both of these issues. The loud rhetoric of the BSA-bashers drowns out those who might try to persuade, and it becomes less likely, not more likely, that BSA will change its policies.

[scoutldr]

FOG said, "They work as hard as they can to not believe in a supremem being when the evidence that there is a supreme being is all around them."

 

Kinda like the Christians who teach their kids that those dinosaur skeletons are all fakes planted there by the evolutionists?

[Deloe]

whitewater:

I haven't seen Merlyn say the sort of things you claim. But I haven't read every thread. So let's just say, for the sake of argument, that Merlyn hates the BSA and wants it to be destroyed. So what? FOG did not direct his attacks to Merlyn specifically, he directed them to atheists in general. If FOG is justified in judging all atheists based on Merlyn, then Merlyn is justified in judging all Scouts based on FOG.

 

Big_Dog:

I think that what you missed is that Eamonn started a thread ASKING atheists for their views. If someone on a planned parenthood forum asked what Pro-Life and Anti-Choice activists think, I don't see anything wrong with you responding. I speak of Pro-Life and Anti-Choice because there are some people who are opposed to Planned Parenthood because they don't think it should receive public funding (these people are Pro-Life), but I think most of them want to eliminate Planned Parenthood completely (these people are Anti-Choice). I don't think that most atheists deny BSA's right to exist, merely its right to receive public funds.

I did not come here to convince people to abandon the BSA. My stimulus was the dishonest coverage of the Fiesta Island suit. This isn't about making people agree with me; I just want people who disagree with me to do so on the basis of facts, rather than distortions of truth. I support the right of the BSA to advocate its interests, I just think that they should do so with the truth, not with lies. If Planned Parenthood were to so completely misrepresent the facts in a suit, I would oppose that as well (probably more so, since people like you seem to associate me with them, and I wouldn't want to be associated with liars).

And not believing in God makes it more important, for I cannot comfort myself by saying "Well, at least God knows the truth". I don't think that there is anything standing between evil and the innocent except humans, which makes my actions all the more important.

 

[NJCubScouter]

FOG says:

 

Eamonn, atheists hate anything to do with religion even more than Arabs hate Jews.

 

Leaving aside the Arabs and the Jews...

 

Most (not all) atheists I have known (either in person or on the Internet) do not hate religion. Most really don't care what other people think, unlike many people who are religious, as is proven often in this forum. (I vote with Thomas Jefferson: "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." Of course, during Jefferson's lifetime, he was sometimes accused of being an atheist, which he denied.)

 

Now, I am speaking of atheists in general. The most "prominent" avowed atheist in this forum, Merlyn, has at times "crossed the line" in my opinion, by ridiculing religious beliefs. Several religious believers in this forum have done the same thing in the other direction, by ridiculing or otherwise picking on atheists. It's just as wrong in either direction.