dan Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Bob White said they have a responsibility to deliver the BSA's scouting program. Just being the SM does not put you in charge, or allow you to do anything you want. You answer to the Charter Organization's IH, COR, and CC, as well as to the local representatives of the BSA. My point was that there is no checks or balances. Most SM run a program that they see fit, 50 percent attendance or you do not advance. The Class A uniform is a scout shirt and orange zuba pants, SM picks patrols make up, mixed aged patrols, doing Merit Badges at a troop meetings only. and so on and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 That's not altogether true. There are some checks and balances. Commissioned scouters have the ability to begin processes that can withdraw charters or memberships for violations in policy areas that a unit refuses to correct such as safety, uniforming, advancement, membership, and finances. The charter organization has the ability to remove membership or change leadership at will as well as control youth membership. Adult leaders can voluntarily choose to follow the program and help to guide each other as they learn and grow in scouting. Many volunteers spend their time just trying to help others to be successful as scout leaders and offer guidance and mentoring. Councils and district offer dozens of different training programs to help leaders learn and be motivated to follow the program. An active commissioning team can be a valuable asset in evaluating and assisting the needs of units. If you mean that scouting relies primarily on the character of volunteers to keep their promise and do their best to follow the scouting program, then you are absolutely right. The most powerful tool there is for delivering a quality scouting program at the unit level is a conscious and determined effort to select and recruit quality adult leadership. If you are looking for scouters either volunteer or professional to crack the whip over every scouter's head to follow the program or else, forget it. It ain't gonna happen! That is not what scouting is here to do. Life is too short, that's not a job that a person should volunteer his time to do. There aren't enough professionals in scouting to crack that many whips. If your unit didn't take the time to choose the right adults to guide your children then you either make the changes needed or live the results of your choice. We each have a responsibility to keep the promise of scouting that is made to each scout when he joins, and the one made to the BSA to follow the program. Character counts and it begins with each of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Dan I'm not sure what you want? Just as there is no such thing as the "Uniform Police," We don't have a "Program Police." Please believe me when I say that there are times when I wish there was. I will admit that there have been times when I have seen troops and packs where the Leadership could really benefit from a swift kick in the pants. Much as I hate to admit it there have been times when I have just waited for a unit to die or the leader to quit. There have been times when I have phoned or met with the CO and said that things have got to change or else. In fact over the weekend I received a shocking report about what one Scoutmaster is up to and the DE and I will be meeting with the CO next week to discuss it. Some little while back I asked the question "Do Scoutmasters get the troop they deserve?" In my experience the Scoutmaster that is delivering the program will see the fruits of his labors.The youth members are having fun and they want to bring their pals along. They stay in the program longer. People who understand the program and have taken the time to take the training's know what their role is and work well together, which results in less conflicts and less "Burn Out."Parents who see that their kid is getting something out of the program are more lightly to want to put something back into the program. Will we ever all be on the same page at the same time? I don't think so. 99.9% of the time the guys and girls from the Council and the District try to bring wrong doers into line by using friendly advise and persuasion. Where possible we try and nudge people into taking the training, we make them aware of where to find the resources that they need. I like to think that we set the example by how we look and how we act. Somehow I think that giving the wrong doers twenty lashes with a wet Wood Badge might tarnish our image. Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Bobwhite said "That's not altogether true." Is that like not completely atheist? Eamonn said "I'm not sure what you want?" I want to win the lottery! Guess I should purchase some tickets. Bob White said that the Scoutmaster does not have control over the troop, and I say they do. That is all that I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Hi dan, What's it like to want? "Not altogether true" was a veiled attempt to convey "No Dan, you are wrong." but perhaps that was to subtle. You want to hear that being the Scoutmaster puts you "in charge" of the troop. No Dan, you are wrong.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Bob White And I say you are incorrect. To subtle, just like BSA training! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Dan, I'm confused. Do you think the SM should get to call all the shots his way? I don't see it that way. There is a program, there are policies, and there is shared responsibility. The SM is the person most--if not all--would likely look to to see how the troop carries out the program. The SM is the one responsible for ensuring the program is delivered, but he has a committee supporting him and then SAs and the youth to actually deliver the program too. How does this translate into the SM doing things his way? Or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Q. Who has the authority to approve the scoutmaster? A. The Charter Organization representative or Institution Head, and the Committee Chair. The SM has responsibilities, but as long as you can be chosen and/or removed by someone else, you are not "in charge". Bosses are for businesses. Scouting requires servant/leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 BW, Scouting requires savant/leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I like that acco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstpusk Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 acco40, thank you for posting no descriptors with savant ;^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Dan, Even in Cub Scouts which is adult led, the Cubmaster is not in charge and does not call the shots if he is following the program. He leads, but he does not dictate anything to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Laurie asked Do you think the SM should get to call all the shots his way? Yes, no, yes, no! I cannot answer this without specifics! Should the SM be allowed to make sure new scouts are placed in NSP. Yes Should he be allowed to pick scouts for all other Patrols? No Do you think a SM is in control of a troop? Apparently you do, you said he has the responsibility. You cannot have responsibility without some control. The control should come from the BSA program and polices. Q. Who has the authority to approve the scoutmaster? Q. Who really does it? Bobwhite The president of IBM can be removed, you say he is not in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 "The president of IBM can be removed, you say he is not in charge?" Ulitmately, he isn't. The President answers to the Board and the Board answers to the stockholders. The SM is in charge of a limited aspect of the troop. The committee is in charge of another part. The SPL is in charge of yet another part. All have to answer to the owner of the troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 No, I don't think the SM is in charge. I think he is charged with the responsibility to serve the boys in the troop. To me that means he is responsible to the charter organization to do what he was chosen to do. To me that means he is responsible for setting a good example to the troop and to ensuring that leader training (youth leader training) is taking place. I serve as CM right now, but I know that I am not in charge. I can be removed, and I know that, so I hope I'm being responsible to the CR as well as to the pack by following the program as the BSA intends leaders to. This is how I see the SM role too--as chosen and charged with responsibility to carry out a particular program. Not the sole responsibility, but shared responsibility. Oh, and no, the CO did not chose either of us for these roles. I was asked by the committee and den leaders and the UC approved it. At the time there was no known CR; there is now, and he is involved more. However, whether or not the CO provided oversight or did the choosing, I still know that I have a responsibility to them and that they should make the call in who serves. That is what guides me to follow the program even without them being involved. That and the fact that I simply enjoy the BSA (This message has been edited by Laurie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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