Fun and Adventure

[Marty_Doyle]

Being able to quote someone else seems to have acquired a new level of importance on the forums , so here is a quote:

 

"Scouting answered a boy's craving for fun and adventure. But it's appeal ran deeper than that, for it also spoke directly to a boy's self-respect. Instead of imposing a lot of rules, Scouting put a boy on his honor and trusted him to do his best. It encouraged him to follow his own special interests and discover his own unique abilities. It asked him to use his skills and knowledge to help others. And it challenged him to take on a man's responsibilities. Scouting took boys seriously, and that was the real secret of its enormous appeal."

Russell Freedman, Scouting with Baden-Powell, 1967

 

Here's another one, from B-P himself:

 

"If you take up Scouting in that spirit, you will be doing something. Take it up, not merely because it is good fun, but because by doing so you will be preparing yourself to be a good citizen not only of your country but of the whole world.

Then you will have in you the truest spirit of patriotism, which every boy ought to have if he is worth his salt."

 

"Campfire Yarn No. 2. What Scouts Do."

Baden-Powell, Scouting for Boys, 1908

 

No program can make "a boy into a man" (shades of Tim Curry in Rocky Horror), however we define that, unless the boy shows up.

 

What do youth want? We all know - knives, fire, axes. Camping out. Hiking. Swimming. Pinewood Derbies with their dads. FUN AND ADVENTURE. That's why they fill out (or get their parents to fill out) applications to join a pack, a troop, a crew, a ship.

 

And as leaders, we have to develop an interesting, year round program that meets these "wants", to keep the youth coming back.

 

When they are there, they learn the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack. The Scout Oath and Law. The Venturing Oath and Code. Leadership skills. They develop character. They build physical and mental skills. They are exposed to new ideas and new experiences, that might lead to a new hobby or a field of employment. They become more self-confident, more self-reliant and have better self-esteem. They learn how to become better citizens of their country, and ohmigosh, of the world. Maybe even as "peace scouts".

 

That's what it is all about.

 

But all the words aren't worth a tinker's dam if the youths aren't there. That's why fun and adventure is so important.

 

(I said youths. Scouting in the US is mainly boys. But it includes girls and women, as youth members and leaders. There have been girls in Scouting from the very beginning. There were Girl Scouts at the Crystal Palace Rally in 1909 (see Jeal's biography of B-P). And who started the Girl Guides? And was friendly with Daisy Low and led her to found what became the GSUSA?

I have no problem with girls and women in Scouting, because obviously, B-P didn't).

 

Right now, my son isn't interested in Aristotle or Plato, unless you can get Viggio Mortensen to play him in a movie, along with the attendant horses and swordplay. But he is interested in the fun and adventures he and his buddies have as Webelos Scouts, who are crossing over to a troop this year. (And my daughter is in Girl Scouts, but she is thinking about becoming a Boy Scout when she turns 14, "because they go real camping"). The fact that they are absorbing the "lifetime values and developing ethical character as expressed in the Oath and Law" (to paraphrase the BSA vision statement for Cub Scouts) is just part of the design and icing on the cake.

 

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand Scouting.(This message has been edited by Marty_Doyle)

[WHEELER]

Do boys join the football team for fun and adventure?

 

The Boy Scouts in America are also a take off from Earnest Seton.

 

Why did he start?

 

Because a gang of boys vandalized his fence.

 

The Boys Brigades in England and the YMCA where Scouting had its start were all formed to put CHARACTER in the Scouts. To make them manly!

 

WHAT IS THIS BIG PUSH AGAINST SAYING OR DOING "TO BE A MAN"? What in tarnation is going on that we are afraid and resist this "to be a man"? I have already pulled out three references about becoming a man from old BSA literature and yet there is resistance from Men?

 

What is the problem with manly? "Fun and adventure" sounds like what women put in their personal ads all the time. "Someone that will make me laugh". More feminism!

 

From the evil 1962 Scoutmaster's Handbook, "See to it that each boy . . . has the chance to develop himself into a MAN (emphasis original)"

 

Today, they hid it all behind crap like "Character counts" because "building men" is not PC.

 

1948 Field Manual pg 469

 

he is on his way to becoming a man of action.

 

Becoming a Man

Baden-Powell tells of the test that was given the Zulu boy of Africa before he was considered a man:

 

1948 Handbook for boys.

 

Pg 43, Those are the Ideals of Scouting. Those are the qualities that make great and successful men.

 

Pg 62 wants to see them grow up to be real men.

(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

[Fat Old Guy]

Wheeler, this is the 21st century. Many men are decidely unpopular and boys engaging in manly activities are equally unpopular. Don't fight. Don't climb that tree. Don't jump your bike off a cliff. Don't ogle the girls (although it is fine for them to ogle you).

 

It is acceptable for Helen Ready (sp?) to sing, "I am woman. Hear me roar!" but it is unacceptable for men to proclaim, "I am man!" Women sing, "I can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan" but if a man reminds a woman that he's the provider, he's an ogre.

 

Sociologists are now claiming that many of the ills of our society are related to femminism and women working. Mom's not home after school so junior hangs out on the corner getting into trouble. Mom doesn't want to skip a day at work so junior goes to school with strep throat and infects half of his class. Mom wants to work so junior is raised by strangers at the day care center.

 

There are those families that both adults need to work to make ends meet but the wonks who study such things say that much of that has been caused by the increase of two income families who now have more disposable income which raises prices.

 

I know many women who work for absurd reasons, leaving their kids to be raised by other people. One that comes to mind works so they can own a beach house AND a cabin in the mountains. Hubby makes about $150,000 a year so they aren't starving but for the sake of weekend retreats, Junior and Sis go to day care at 6 AM and get picked up at 6 PM.

 

Okay, now you can call me evil for expressing such opinions.

 

 

[Marty_Doyle]

You're evil.

 

[Hunt]

I just don't see this claimed feminization in our culture. Our popular culture still elevates the macho guy who solves problems with fists and guns. A guy like Donald Trump is still a hero. There's nothing feminized about people like Eminem--heroes to many youth. In fact, one thing I like about Boy Scouts is that it offers an alternative to that idea of what is "manly"--self-reliance, virtue, teamwork. I also have to scoff a bit at the idea that female leaders are feminizing scouting--the women who get involved are hardly teaching the boys to make lace doilies--in fact, they tend to be women who probably aren't feminine enough for old-timers, because they like to hike, climb, etc.

[WHEELER]

In the Boy Scouts, "Fun and Adventure" have now become the formal cause and the telos, the end. "Fun and Adventure" are really "the marketing tools" and the "chisel" of the stone mason. "Fun and adventure" have assumed such a high priority that is has DWARFED everything else in its path.

 

Why do you think, boys and men are into video games---to escape reality and keep feeding themselves this ideology of "fun and adventure".

 

Most things men do are for "ESCAPISM".

 

Liberals do want boys and men to be completely absorbed by "Fun and adventure". This is all about effeminizing men.

 

Thomas Setan did not start his group to have "fun and adventure". The Boys Brigade and the YMCA did not start for the reason of having "fun and adventure".

 

As for Eminem, he doesn't know what it means to be a man. He is a disgusting piece of a human being. No white man has ever acted like that since the debaucheries of the Roman Empire and the Athenian democracy. He is filthy and vulgar mouthed puerile and ARROGANT. He teaches his character to all his listeners. He is just an elevated street punk.

[acco40]

To be "manly" is a phrase that has about as much hogwash as the BSA's "traditional values." Both are marketing ploys. They are meant to invoke nice warm fuzzy feelings. They do not always do that. If the BSA has some values it wants to promote, use them! They do in my book. I just wish the term "traditional values" would be put in the waste basket. "Manly" can join it in the dumpster.

 

Face it. Many women make lousy mothers. Many men make lousy fathers and/or providers. Some dads would do well to stay home and take care of the kids while mom went out and earned the proverbial bacon. Each couple should figure that out on their own. My only gripe is why my tax dollars are used to take care of others children because they decide to work? Why should individuals get aa tax deduction for child care or for that matter the simple act of having children? Our society amazes me sometimes.

 

 

Now what does all this have to do with this treads topic?

 

[NJCubScouter]

Wheeler says:

 

Liberals do want boys and men to be completely absorbed by "Fun and adventure". This is all about effeminizing men.

 

Then how come I keep hearing that "liberals" are too serious and have no sense of humor and just want to control everything? Can't you conservatives get your story straight?

 

Plus, I have to tell you, when my son went on his first "whitewater" rafting trip in the Poconos last year, he had probably the most fun and adventure of his life, but I really don't think he was "effeminized" by the experience.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Our popular culture still elevates the macho guy who solves problems with fists and guns."

 

Not popular culture. Guys. Wymen and intellectual elite mock and ridicule the action movie with the manly hero. Most men suffer the same ridicule from their wives and especially the wives' friends when they go do something "rugged." "Oh that Bob, always running off to do some silly thing as if he was a kid." It may be silly for Bob and his buddies to go rock climbing but it is perfectly acceptable for Bob's wife Suzie and her pals to spend time at a day spa being rubbed with a loofa.

 

 

[WHEELER]

This is great and it needs to continue. The question is though, when the going gets tougher, will he continue and tough it out.

 

Provide all the adventure, hiking, camping, and whiteriver rafting. But while he is doing that, is he becoming hard or remaining soft? Is he learning virtues? Does somebody challenge him when he starts to complain---"Quit yourself like a man". Does he hear this charge?

 

Does he wear Boy Scout approved hiking shorts all the time with the knee socks so his legs are exposed to the weather to harden him or has he become mommyized by wearing long trousers? Does he sleep on the ground on his campouts or does he bring a cot?

 

Does he suffer the elements bravely or do we comfort him?

 

 

These are the questions that need to be answered.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Wheeler asks several questions, apparently of me, about a post where I mentioned my son, and concludes:

 

These are the questions that need to be answered.

 

Well, not by me, to you, about my son. Even though I am "anonymous" here, I sort of regret even mentioning him.

[WHEELER]

I meant this of all the boys in Scouting. Do we harden them while they are in the adventure of Scouting?

 

I am not saying do away with "Fun and Adventure" but it needs to take its proper place and in the right proportion. "Fun and adventure" has overwhelmed all aspects of Scouting. I am bringing to light other aspects of it.

 

I meant of all the boys.