How Death cometh

[WHEELER]

TwoCubDad,

 

What have I been posting these last three weeks.

 

you posted: You begin with a false premise that the purpose of Scouting was to "rigorize boys into men,"

 

In the l948 Handbook for Boys gives the reasons for the start of the Boy Scouts. I don't have the page number here now. But it is in the post The Ideal, The telos, and the lack in the BSA. I quoted straight from the BSA literature.

 

I also quoted in that same post from two other BSA books that had sentences that said "to be a man" or other words to that effect.

 

Then I have scoutmasters that say this is not the purpose of the BSA.

 

We have a contradiction. The OLD LITERATURE refutes the "doxa" (opinion) of these moderns. Something is going on. Liberalism is a dagerous virus and it has invaded the BSA rank and file. This silly notion of "fun and adventure" that has assumed the rank of the telos or the ideal is outrageous.

 

"Fun and adventure" is quite meaningless in and of itself. It has no substance and real meaning in them at all. "Fun & Adventure" are almost nihilistic in substantive meaning. This is crazy.

 

The Post were the l948 manual is compared to the l998 manual is proof positive something is wrong somewhere.

[Proud Eagle]

I am not entirely certain how this responds to my points, but I do certainly thank you for the time and attention.

 

You may be right that there may be unforeseeable consequences of allowing women to be leaders in the BSA. However, if that be so, then worrying about it doesn't do much good since we can't figure out what problems we need to prevent. I personally think that women do contribute something to the BSA. However, I have yet to find a case of a woman contributing to the BSA simply because they were a woman. On the other hand, I have known trained, competent leaders that happened to be women. They were far superior to untrained, incompetent men. Now if I was organizing a Scout unit and I was forced to choose between equally qualified men and women, I would choose men to work with boys and women to work with girls. That seems to be a perfectly reasonable position to hold. On the other hand, if I had to choose between qualified and unqualified leaders, I would choose the qualified ones.

 

Now, someone else mentioned the training boys to be men issue again. I certainly don't think that the purpose of Boy Scouts can be neatly summed up in that statement. However, neither will I deny that is a part of what Boys Scouts is trying to do. We do want to help make boys into good men. Scouting can't do it alone. Nor is that the only intention of the Scouting movement. Just because there is nothing about it in the mission, vision, or aims, doesn't mean it isn't there. The idea of turning boys into men has gained some sort of negative connotation over the years. I think maybe it has something to do with various institutions (mostly military and boarding schools) that tried to create the "whole man". So the BSA no longer says that is any part of what it is doing, but yet you will see that the mission, vision, and aims are all perfectly compatible with that end.

 

Wheeler, I would like to make a few suggestions.

 

Decrease the volume of posting to a more easily digestible level. People will pay more attention to what you do say if you don't say quite as much quite so often.

 

Make certainty that your philosophical arguments have some concrete relationship to a practical idea. If it no one can figure out what application the words of Socrates have, they will stop reading them in a hurry. On the other hand, Socrates sounds pretty interesting if you can find a real way to apply it.

 

Try to avoid the sort of stream of consciousness that your entire posting history seems to be. Your individual posts taken by themselves aren't so bad, but the way you string different posts together can be a bit confusing. It sometimes seems that you are trying to prove or make some one, grand, unstated point. However, it would be more productive if you would focus on a single issue or point at one time. Concentrate on that issue until some satisfactory conclusion is reached, and then move on to the next front in your crusade to save the Boy Scouts from themselves and their enemies. As is, you are moving on to new battles while the old ones are not yet finished.

 

Have you ever considered how your judgment about certain issues in general has been biased by your own personal experiences? Based on what you have said about your mother I wonder if perhaps her actions and your relationship with her have biased your thoughts and feeling about women in general. It could be that there are other biases you hold based on other experiences. These biases may or may not be beneficial to you. After all, we all have biases about certain things.

 

These are just a few thought about these subjects. You can take them or leave them.

[WHEELER]

I notice in my own life how feminism has affected me. I see also in other people how it is affecting their sons. I also see that Feminism affects Politics and it is affecting the Church. Its influence is very destructive. I point again, Please read "The Church Impotent, The Feminization of Christianity" By Leon Podles. He sees the same thing I am seeing.

 

There is a bigger picture going on here. I know what the 'BIG PICTURE' is. It is my duty to know.

 

Boys are childish. Adult men who never gain masculinity persist in childishness. MTV and all the current TV programing like the Simpsons, Friends, Sienfield is a good example of the growing puerileness in men. As Women take over, Men will regress more and more into children and persist in childishness. This is a fact of life.

[Marty_Doyle]

Of course, childishness may not be so bad....didn't somebody link that to entry into heaven (Matt. 18:3)?

[WHEELER]

Interesting you would say that Mr. Doyle.

 

Jesus used the word "childLIKE" NOT CHILDISH!!!!!

 

Effeminates are CHILDISH. And I won't go in to the word "childlike" until I post the piece de resistance in the far future.

 

And it is the EFFEMINATES, (i.e. the childISH) that won't inherit heaven! Jesus doesn't want the childISH in heaven and so you don't have a clue what childLIKE IS.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I'm always amused by people who try to argue subtle syntactical differences in bible verses - in English.

[WHEELER]

I Cor 13:11

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child, I reasoned like a child; when I BECAME  a Man, I GAVE UP childish Ways."

The word in Greek for child "nipios"  but for the word childish, it is "nipious".

[WHEELER]

The other verse is from Matthew 18.3.

 

Jesus said, "Unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of God."

 

Children here in the Greek is "Paidia". Paidia also has another connotation and in a slighty different form as SLAVES or servants. "Paida" and "Paidiskin" from the Septuagint Ex 20.17. Accents are probably different.

 

Childlike is to be servantlike.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

[Adrianvs]

Laudato si, mi signore, per sora nostra morte corporale, da laquale nullu homo vivente po skappare.

 

Guai acqueli ke morrano ne le peccata mortali!

 

Beati quelli ke trovarane le tue santissime voluntati, ka la morte secunda nol fara' male.

[ASM1]

Someone needs to alert the moderator of this board and contact the FBI about this WHEELER fella. He sounds like the next Ted Bundy to me. How the hell did he ever get into Scouting?

 

You really hate women don't you WHEELER?

 

ASM1

 

PS. I think my wife would be the one woman who would love to wax your rails! But it would take a real man to stand up to her. You do not qualify.

[NJCubScouter]

I notice in my own life how feminism has affected me.

 

Wheeler, I've refrained from saying this before, but you keep talking about how things in your life have affected you, so at the risk of being accused of being "un-Scoutlike," I'll say it now. You have posted before about how your mother was a feminist and how she did things that destroyed you as a man, or something like that. Maybe you should stop blaming the entire female gender, or the idea of gender equality, for what your mother did. Maybe even better yet, you should give some fresh attention to your problems with your mother and how they have gotten you to where you are now. Ideally, you may end up forgiving your mother, or perhaps concluding that it really wasn't her fault to begin with. There are people who can help you with this, but as far as I am aware, nobody in this forum is professionally qualified to fulfill that role. I think you should find someone who is.

[LovetoCamp]

A box of chocolates with a card saying "Love you Mom", a dozen red roses, a vase pronounced "vass" to put them in, a trip to Steamboat in January, a Royal Carribean cruise....make it happen, get right with the Mom.

[Laurie]

NJ: interesting you should say that. I have wondered if it wouldn't be a good thing to do, to learn to overcome a negative part of life and turn it around for good. As Scouters, don't we try to teach the youth we work to do this very thing? To rise above the circumstances and to learn to do more than they might even dream they could do? My little nephew with cancer. He has a choice: to complain about how unfair life is (and he'd be right!) or to do what he does do. He smiles, stays positive, has learned to use hearing aides, a walker, and as little help as possible from other people so that he can rise above his circumstances. He has learned more about being a man by age 10 than many at twice his age. Strength, courage, being cheerful when the odds are against you. One mark of growth, to me anyway, is that of learning to deal with one's circumstances and move forward anyway, not bitter, angry, or full of regret, but instead determined to do what is right and what is best and somehow be cheerful in that.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[WHEELER]

Do you walk into a mechanic's shop and tell them what to do?

 

Do you walk into a doctor's office and tell them what to do?

 

Are any of you trained in philosophy. Before I arrived, you couldn't give a rat's patuty about philosophy. None of you use philosophy because none of you use any philosophical terms or methodology.

 

None of you are trained in philosophy and could care less. Just because you have a mouth you think you know what to do and you do not. Opinions are not philosophy!

 

You don't know what virtue was! It is in the Federal Charter of l916. And then you want to tell me what to do!

 

What does this prove YOU ARE COMPLETELY IGNORANT and clueless!!!!!

 

I pull up quotes from old Boy Scout literature and you people go bananas.

 

You don't know the first thing about education and you certainly don't know anything about male paedogogy. You never used the word and you certainly don't have any ideal what it means.

 

I have proved my points. You refuse to read.

 

How many times do I have to say this: Leon Podles states emphatically that Feminism is dangerous and is a heresy. What don't you get?

 

For you Roman Catholics out there, you never read the Bible, You don't have a love of the Bible, you could care less about the Bible. This goes for your priests as well. All they preach on is 'love' and nothing else.

 

The Book of Sirach in chapter 38 and 39, in so much words "that not all people can lead, only those who study the law of the lord". You know none of it

 

In IV Maccabees 1.17 "And this is contained in the education (paideia) of the LAW; by which we learn divine things reverently, and human things profitably." If you don't study the Bible, you don't have a clue about God or reality!

 

 

[dan]

I know I should not do this but at least I did not say I would ignore him and than not ignore him.

 

Do you walk into a mechanic's shop and tell them what to do?

Why yes I do, I know my vehicles a lot better than someone who has never driven it.

 

Do you walk into a doctor's office and tell them what to do? Sometimes. Hey doc I got that sinus infection again, can you give me a script for some antibiotic.

 

paedogogy, is this a word you made up? Cause it ain't in Websters.

 

You don't know what virtue was!

What was it? I like to think more along the lines of what it is, not what it was.

 

How many times do I have to say this: Leon Podles states emphatically that Feminism is dangerous and is a heresy. 99,999 times.

Leon Podles is a quack.

 

I have proved my points. You refuse to read.

If a teacher does not provide learning, you cannot say the student was at fault.

 

rat's patuty what the heck is this another one of your made up words.