The Ideal, The Telos and its lack in BSA

[WHEELER]

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  (1)

 

Scouting promises you experience and duties that will help you mature into a strong, wise adult. (2) 

 

What is missing or confusing in each of these statements?

 

There really isnt any ideal or Telos presented in the BSA mission statement.

 

If the Boy Scouts of America is a Movement, what the mission statement should be presenting is the end product (or in Greek, the telos) or the Ideal.  The Ideal is what the Movement aims for.

 

Every living thing tends towards its telos.  All change includes the four causes that Aristotle elucidated.  They are the formal cause, the material cause, the efficient cause and the Telos, or Final cause.

 

Before the Hoover Dam was even built, the Concept was visualized.  Before the Golden Gate Bridge or the Empire Building was even built, the Concept was visualized.  Yet the mission statement fails in this regard.  In the modern BSA handbook, it says you mature into an adult.

 

Adult What?  An Adult plant?  An Adult dog?  An Adult female?  Not only is Adult gender neutral but is also SPECIES neutral.

 

This is comparable to standing in front of a Troop and saying, We are going camping in the State of California this weekend.  But where in California?  I dont know.  Just California.  This is what Adult connotates.

 

Does one hand out amorphous directions to the drivers of the Scout Troop?  This is exactly what the official BSA mission and vision statements are.

 

 

The official Boy Scout organization, cant decipher out the formal and material causes right.  Boys do not develop into young people.  They develop into men.  Young connotes immaturity or newly arrived.  Boys are young.  People is gender neutral and inclusive.  How can boy being gender specific and exclusive be turned into young people which is gender neutral and inclusive.  What we are really doing is androgynizing boys.  That is what the mission of the Boy Scouts is really proclaiming. In essence it is Unisexism.

 

Again, the fallacy here can be clearly drawn with what a ship does.  When a ship leaves the harbor, doesnt it KNOW where its destination is?  Or does it wander aimlessly over the seas and stumble into something?  When one makes a trip from San Francisco to New York, one KNOWS beforehand ones DESTINATION.  How does one KNOW that he has started on the trip?  When one is no longer in San Francisco.  One stays on course to get to his destination. One KNOWS he is leaving when he sees San Francisco behind him and not in front of him.  This one has never been to New York, but he has a concept of it.  His concept guides him to his destination!!!!

 

Every boy is a ship.  But what is happening is that NO ONE  is telling the boys their destination.  What is going on is that many a boy are wandering around aimlessly.

 

Every boy must have the Ideal and the Telos presented to him

 

The essence of education is to make each individual in the image of the community.  (3) 

 

The greatest work of art they had to create was Man.  They (the ancient Greeks) were the first to recognize that education means deliberately moulding human character in accordance with an ideal. (4) 

 

The intellectual principle of the Greeks is not individualism but humanism, to use the word in its original and classical sense.  It meant the process of educating man into his true form, the real and genuine human nature.  (5)

 

Aristocracy, in all ages and all nations, is marked by discipline, the deliberate formation of human character through wise direction and constant advice.  It is the only class which can claim to produce the complete Man.  (6)

 

This whole idea is of the greatest importance in the history of Greek education.  It shows us the regular pattern, the under-lying ideal of the old aristocratic training.  When Achilles has no experience either of warfare or of the art of oratory, his father Peleus sends his most trusty vassal to be his companion on the battlefield and at court, and to mould him after the traditional pattern of manliness.  (7)

 

But the later Greeks also held to the paradeigma, the example for imitation, as a fundamental category in life and thought.  Platos whole philosophy is built on the conception of pattern, and that he describes the Ideas as patterns established in the realm of Being. (8) 

 

The Greek trinity of poet, statesman, and sage embodied the nations highest ideal of leadership.  (9)  John Wayne said in his movie, Before one becomes a gentleman, one must be a Man. Before one can be a citizen, statesman, poet, or sage, one must be a MAN first.  If a boy doesnt become a man, how can he be a good citizen or soldier? 

 

Boys live on ideology.  This is the reason that Plutarch wrote his Lives on famous Greeks and Romans.  Polybius comments that on anniversaries and holidays, Roman men would present skits of famous and great Roman men to the boys of their society in order that the boys have a concept of what they needed to be.  They gave them the IDEAL.

 

Yet what image are we presenting to the boys? the androgynous image of the socialistic community of the modern handbook?  Or that which is presented in the l948 handbook, you are in company with men like Rogers Rangers, Lewis and Clark, Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, (10) the community of real men?  The community of Heroes, Knights, Boer Commandos, Warriors, and Soldiers.

 

Boys must hear Quit yourself like a Man.  The Ideal is presented to them to grasp.  If this is never presented and urged upon them, boys will never become what they do not hear.

 

Boys are not static.  Boys do not remain boys.  They turn into MEN.  Boy is the transitional stage between infant and the telos.  What is the telos of the male child?

 

It seems that the Boy Scouts do not have a clue to what this is.  Several scoutmasters denied the fact that training boys to be men is a part of the BSA.  The BSAs own mission and vision statements completely ignore the TELOS of boys.

 

If the Boy Scouts are nothing but a series of planned events which is scheduled around fun and adventure,  then it is nothing more than a PROGRAM.  Fun and Adventure are the telos of the modern BSA.

 

But is this the idea of Lord Baden-Powell?  Is this what boys are to do have fun and adventure.

 

What is the Boy Scouts?

The Boy Scout Movement is a paedogogical institution.  But what kind of paedogogy?    

"...A young British army officer, Robert Baden-Powell, was stationed in the wild South African country to train new soldiers from England in the skills of tracking, trailing, and wilderness living.

"HE FOUND THAT HIS MEN WERE SO USED TO CITY LIVING THAT THEY COULD NOT STAND THE VIGOROUS LIFE OF THE OUTDOORS."  (11) 

These recruits where (1) ignorant of the out-of-doors and (2) soft, in other words effeminate.

The concept of the Boy Scouts came from this observation.

The Movement at its fundamentals was to "RIGORIZE" boys so that they could live out of doors; to make boys hardy and rugged.  The page from the 1911 Boy Scout handbook is a picture of hardiness and ruggedness.  Iron sharpens Iron.

The Movement at its fundamentals was to EDUCATE boys to the skills necessary for scouting, and outdoorsmanship.

This is the core of the Boy Scout Movement.  It is TO MOVE boys from ignorance of the out-of-doors to knowledge of the same and from effeminacy to hardiness.

"The Boy Scouts were founded by Baden-Powell because recruits for the British army were too often found to be physically unfit-unfit, that is, for military service. The British Scouts encouraged physical fitness by teaching boys to be observers and trackersInstead, the regimen of the Scouts is designed to teach boys how to endure moderate discomfort, cooperate with others and ultimately save others."  (12) "Michael Rosenthal claims: "For Scouting was from the very beginning conceived as a remedy to Britian's moral, physical, and military weakness--conditions that the Boer war seemed to announce-especially to Tory politicians, social imperialists, and military leaders-were threatening the Empire (13)

The Boy Scouts are about curing effeminacy among men and masculinizing men.

 

The other thing Lord Baden-Powell noticed that many of the cultures he observed had some kind of puberty rite for their males.  Boys have to be trained to be Men.

 

The Boy Scout Movement is a MALE paedogogical institution.

Fun and adventure is not the telos it is an efficient cause but is not the final cause.  Three books attest to this precept.  The l948 Handbook for Boys, the l948 Field Manual and the 1962 Scoutmasters Handbook. (14)

 

As is clear in the current mission and vision statements of the BSA, it doesnt have a clue on what male paedogogy is, what it entails, what the telos is, what the efficient cause is or anything.  It is actually harming boys in its androgynous stand and words.  It has actually adopted the language of Unisexism.  It has the culture of hate towards men because it doesnt want to say that word.

 

The First principle of MALE PAEDOGOGY is the expression of the IDEAL; in other words, the TELOS.  It cant do that and hasnt done that for quite awhile.

 

Lord Baden-Powell said Scouting is a game with a purpose.  Yet sadly, the BSA has forgotten what this Purpose is!

 

The original mission of the Boy Scouts was the transformation of boys from ignorance to knowledge, from effeminacy to hardiness and from boyhood, to Manhood; in essence the training of boys to be REAL MEN.

 

The Boy Scout objectives of training boys to being men of action were:

 

Implantating of the nature of man as exemplified in the Scout Oath.

Inculcating of every V-I-Rtue with the Scout Law as the foundation.

Hardening and vigorizing in Natures environments.

Educating in Scoutcraft, Woodcraft, Survival skills, Common Sense, Outdoorsmanship, Citizenship, and in various other Sciences.

So that we can be of service to GOD AND COUNTRY

 

If the Boy Scouts is just nothing but fun and adventure, then, it is a program; i.e. a series of events or activities with no purpose in mind.

 

But if the Boy Scouts is A course or series of actions and endeavours on the part of a body of persons, moving or tending more or less continuously towards some special end.

Then the Boy Scouts is about "moving" from one position to another position. Boys do not remain Boys; they change into something. Boys change into men. The Boy Scouts is a movement that has  "some special end".  That special end is being a Man.

This is the telos of Male Paedogogy.

 

(1) Official Boy Scout website.

(2) Boy Scout Handbook, 1998. pg 1

 

(3) Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, trans. By Gilbert Highet, Oxford University Press, New York, l945. Vol I, pg xxiv

 

(4) Ibid, pg xxii

 

(5) Ibid, pg xxiii

 

(6) Ibid, pg 21

 

(7) Ibid, pg 27

 

(8) Ibid, pg 34.

 

(9) Ibid, pg xxvi

 

(10) Handbook for Boys, l948. pg 1-2 

(11) Ibid, pg6.

(12) The Church Impotent, The Feminization of Christianity, by Leon Podles, (who is an Assistant Scoutmaster), Pg 177.

(13) Ibid, footnote on page 250. as from The Character Factory: Baden-Powell and the Origins of the Boy Scout Movement [London:Collins, l986], 3

(14)From the 1962 Scoutmaster's Handbook, "See to it that each boy . . . has the chance to develop himself into a MAN (emphasis original)"  1948 Field Manual pg 469   He is on his way to becoming a man of action.

 

Becoming a Man

Baden-Powell tells of the test that was given the Zulu boy of Africa before he was considered a man:

 

1948 Handbook for boys.   Pg 43, Those are the Ideals of Scouting.  Those are the qualities that make great and successful men.  Pg 62 wants to see them grow up to be real men.

 

 

APPENDIX

 

The Current mission statement of the Boy Scouts

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.  The current BSA Vision statement is: The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law; Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership; Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

Adult What?

This in itself sums up Wheeler's post. This is a stupid question and defines the post.

I feel stupid for responding!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[WHEELER]

How about the Scoutmasters hold a poll in their troop. First, Ask them what the purpose of Boy Scouting is? What answers do you get? Ask them Do you want to be effeminate or manly? Do you want to become a androgynous or a Man?

 

The other night a Boy Scout in Battle Creek sat next to me at the desk. He saw I was on Scouter.com and he said Are you a Scout? I said "Used to be".

 

I asked him, Did anybody say to you "To be a Man"? He said no. I asked him what is the purpose of Scouting and he said to have fun. He was amazed that the purpose of Scouting was to be trained as a Man.

 

Another Scout showed up. He was a Star Scout. I asked him, Do you want to be effeminate or manly? After some hestitation he said, "Manly". I said good. Neither boy heard "Quit yourself as a Man" or "be a Man" ever in the Scout career.

 

Neither did I.

 

Maybe its time to do our jobs right. The boys depend upon it.

[Adrianvs]

Wheeler,

 

Plato disagrees quite strongly with Aristotle on the nature of aristocracy and the ruling class in the ideal society. You seem to favor Aristotle's model. Can you explain the errors that Plato made and how they were corrected by Aristotle?

[dan]

To ask a scout if he wants to be a man or not does nothing for that scout. He will grow up to be man no matter what. But I beleive the BSA will make a better man out of him.

Now take these scouts out in the wilderness/woods and watch them cook a meal over a open fire and sleep in a tent when it is 40 degrees and raining. And you will see these scouts gain more and more confidence campout after campout, it is joy to watch these scouts grow. When a scouts starts teaching other scouts to do what he has learned within the BSA program you no longer see a boy, you see a boy that has grown into a teacher with the ability and confidence to train others in what he has learned. While he is taking a break, I get to walk up to this scout and say, GREAT JOB showing Timmy Tenderfoot how to tie those knots! And this scout grows some more.

Go along with some 13,14,and 15, 16 year old scout on a High Adventure trip, talk about a scout growing in a short time. After hiking 50 miles in a week, sleeping in a tent for a week. Going back to school to give a speech in front of a group of peers, that spent the summer in front of the TV, sure has to be a lot eaiser.

Do you see how the BSA is turning these boys into leaders?

 

[Twocubdad]

This the most incoherent line of baloney I have ever read. Can you point to one case where confusion over the BSA mission statement has caused a Scout to grow up to become and adult dog or plant?

 

Your lack of understanding of the BSA program is truly remarkable. We are not about ""rigorizing"" boys. The purpose of the outdoors program is to teach leadership skills, self reliance and to build confidence. (Those are my words, if Bob White didn't have your threads squelched, I'm sure he would provide the exact BSA verbiage.) Scouting could have been built around any other activity which leads to the same ends -- farming, homebuilding, mechanics, music, even computer games, could be used to teach the same skills BSA seeks to instill. (And in fact other organizations do so.) At the end of the day, I don't care one bit if a Scout remembers how to tie a knot, build a fire, or even if he particularly enjoys camping and hiking. The ability to organize a patrol, to plan an outing, to make good judgments and to apply the ideals of the Oath and Law while doing so are the skills that will last him (or her!) a lifetime.

 

Your ramblings about ideals and "telos" are equally obtuse. If you weren't so obsessed with applying your fourth-century BC view of the world to everything and squeezing all language into your very narrow and usually out dated definitions, you would see that the BSA mission fits your definition of an ideal fairly well. The mission statement says exactly what our end is: people who make moral and ethical choices.

 

Just because you think the mission of the BSA should be to produce Spartan warriors doesn't make it the case. The Scouts you are harassing in the library are giving you good information. I would suggest that you should listen to them, but I would really prefer that you just leave them along.

[WHEELER]

Another thing I forgot to add is that just like the modality of truth, in order to have the truth, one must be have "a want for it" "a zeal for it", manhood is the same way. If you don't want to be a man, you will never get it. You gotta want it, in order to get it. One must want to have it in order to reach it.

 

Winning is the same thing for football teams. you gotta want to win, in order to WIN the game. If boys are never chided to it, they will never get it.

 

To Adrian

To busy right now to answer the question, I don't know the answer to that either.

 

To Dan

 

Here you are a Scoutmaster, and you have publicly stated that in so many words, that you are not going to tell boys "Quit yourself like a Man". Is this the truth?

 

Leadership is not about teaching. Leaders do teach but teaching is not the essence of leadership. The essence of leadership is to command. This means that you don't have a clue on what leadership is.

 

How does one know the positive if one doesn't know the negative? One can not lead unless one first learns to obey!!!!!

 

President George Washington, Father of our Country, is an explempary example of leadership. How did get there? On page 34 of the l948 Handbook for Boys, it relates that his mother said, "I TAUGHT HIM TO OBEY." One cannot command unless he first knows how to obey.

 

The Spartans had a Republican Government. All Spartiates had to participate in politics. So each one was trained to be a general and a leader. But the first thing they did as boys in their training was first to learn how to obey. One cannot command unless he first knows how to obey.

 

Plato again has this principle in his last dialogue the Laws.

 

One can see this modality clearly in Xenophon's Anabasis when the leaders of the Greeks were treacherously murdered at a parley. Xenophon said, "10,000" generals were created. Every Greek learned to obey so that when he became older, he was able to lead.

 

So Dan, you don't have a clue what leadership is.

 

Jesus first learned to obey, before he could sit at the right hand of the Father. Christians are to become "priests and Kings" (Book of Revelation) but only after they first learn to OBEY.

 

Obedience comes before Leadership!

 

[dan]

Wheller

you wrote

Here you are a Scoutmaster, and you have publicly stated that in so many words, that you are not going to tell boys "Quit yourself like a Man". Is this the truth?

No I am not a Scoutmaster, never said I was.

I do not have a clue what Quit yourself like a man, even means, so no I would not say that to anyone.

 

Wheeler, you do not have a clue what leadership is. Leadership is not being a tyrant, like you suggest. With force you can make someone do just about anything, but a good leader is able to lead without fear. A good leader is also a good teacher. I am not saying all teacher are good leaders, though.

 

What do you think you taught those 2 scouts at the library, when you asked them if they wanted to be a man? I bet they thought you where trying to pick them up!

[NJCubScouter]

Dan says about Wheeler, to whom I am not responding:

 

What do you think you taught those 2 scouts at the library, when you asked them if they wanted to be a man? I bet they thought you where trying to pick them up!

 

I was thinking pretty much the same thing about Wheeler's report of his conversations with these 2 teenagers. Seriously, it's not a good idea to do something like that. Even if the kids did not think that, the person at the next terminal or behind the next bookshelf (one of their parents? Or a youth-protection-services worker in the library looking for a book?) might think that. I personally would not want some 43-year-old stranger in a library talking to my son about becoming a "man," it gives me the creeps just thinking about it. Plus, even with that issue aside, it is quite possible that when Wheeler has these conversations with these teenaged boys, he may be contradicting the values and beliefs that their parents have tried to instill in them. It's not his place to do that.

[NJCubScouter]

By the way: Telos, wasn't that the planet in the original Star Trek pilot episode, where Captain Christopher Pike and the Vina are living out their lives under the illusion that they are handsome and beautiful (respectively) rather than horribly mangled, disfigured and/or paralyzed?

 

(It's very close, actually: Talos IV. Maybe Gene Roddenberry read Greek philosophy when he wasn't making tv shows.)

 

Sorry. It's tough to let a Star Trek reference go by, just like Eamonn couldn't let the Beatles reference go by.

[SR540Beaver]

Wheelie,

 

Everything I needed to learn about being a real man was taught to me by my Dad. Lessons to long, deep and numerous to discuss in this forum. It was undergirded by other men in my life such as teachers, coaches, Sunday School teachers, ministers, bosses, neighbors, Scouters, etc.

 

I'd venture to say that few of them gave Socrates, Aristotle or Plato more than a passing thought.

 

A quick search on the internet gave much evidence that all of those philosophers were homosexual. Effiminate. Just what is your obsession with these men? What kind of "manhood" is it that you are interested in teaching boys based on these "men's" teachings?

[Eagle74]

Leadership is not about teaching. Leaders do teach but teaching is not the essence of leadership. OK

The essence of leadership is to command. The essence of leadership is to lead. The essence of being a commander is to command. A commander is not necessarily a leader.

This means that you don't have a clue on what leadership is. Pot calling the kettle black?

[WHEELER]

Just like in the White Stag program, one has what is called the "guided discovery". I polled these scouts to see what message they are getting. It is called "debreifing" in intelligence parlance. That these boys did not have a clue and never heard "be a Man" from anybody within the Scouting organization, prove my points exactly. A First Class Scout and a Star Scout never heard the words "virtue" or "be a Man" from their Scouting organization. And when polled, do you want to be effeminate or Manly? They chose Manly. If this is a youth run organization, why is the BSA encouraging effeminacy against the will of the youth?

 

It is obvious that someone is dropping the ball, the only question is: Is it by incompetence or by design????????

 

Here is an organization that says it will "instill values and moral and ethical choices" yet fails in this very regard. What is moral about keeping boys DUMB of their good? (The Good is the "End".) What is ethical about keeping boys in the dark about virtue? What is moral or ethical about incompetence?

 

How can anybody say they are a man without having ever heard the word "virtue" and to not have ever sought out virtue. Ignorance does not make the man.

 

I like dictionaries. They give nuance to words.

 

To lead: guide, conduct, excort, or direct 2. To Influence; induce 4. to pursue; live. This one I really enjoy 5. To begin or open with, as in games

 

in the verb section of the definition is 4. Command but in 6. means "The principal role in a play." Actors play roles the Greek slang for actors is "Hypocrites" (because they played a false reality).

 

IN THE ROLE TO 'GUIDE' OR 'DIRECT' OR 'INDUCE' CAN BE SAID OF THE DEVIL OR LENIN OR ADOLF HITLER. Leadership does have Command has its definition.

 

To command: 1. to give orders to 2. to have authority (over) 3. To receive as due; exact 4. ability to control.

 

Only something good has "authority". "Evil has NO authority". So, do simpletons have authority or does wise have authority? "The Good" commands obedience. The devil, Lenin, Adolf Hilter, Do they command obedience or are we commanded to disobedience to them? Anything can lead, but only the GOOD can command.

 

The slandering of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle as homosexuals is despicable. Plato recounts in one of his dialogues how Socrates refused the advances of another. Plato condemns homosexuality in the Laws. And Aristotle definately NOT. Socrates is a three time war veteran and to slander him, is unforgiveable. There is no truth nor basis in any of those despicable comments.(This message has been edited by WHEELER)

[dan]

MORE ON SOCRATES

It was common knowledge among the ancients that Socrates, in his late teens and early twenties, had been the lover of his teacher, Archelaus.

 

Xenophon has Diogenes Laertius say, In his youth he was much given to sensual love which was later supplanted by zealous intellectual work. And Socrates replies, Perhaps I may be able to help you in your search for good young men since I am given to love. For whenever I terribly love men I strive with my whole heart that, while loving them, I may in turn be loved.

 

On the eve of his death he spent the night with a young male prostitute, wonder what that was about?

[firstpusk]

It takes a lot of gall for WHEELER to accuse someone else of slander. Someone like him should not be throwing around such unfounded accusations. However, his posts would be pretty thin without slander of scouts, scouters and the scout movement.