scoutmom Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Pardon me for being unclear. I do not currently go camping with my son becuase I respect his need for independence and have confidence in both him and the leadership in the Troop. In the future, if a situation arises that I feel the need to look into, I will be camping. I do not go camping now because things have gone well. No he is not always happy with what is for dinner or who his tent mate is and please give me a little credit for being smart enough to recognize that these are the things he needs to work through. As this young man's parent, it is my responsibility to look into anything that threatens his safety. Not anyone else's. I am a single parent, not by choice, but by circumstance. If my son had a father figure in his life, I would be more than happy to allow him to step in. I have no way of knowing if you are a parent or not. (being a parent might change your opinion about some things) The only thing I know about you is that you are a 19 year old Scouter who had some bad experiences with women participating in your Scouting career. Do not paint us all with the same brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovetoCamp Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Who siad that the girl Scouts were wrong? I'm just poining out that no one questions the GSUSA policy as vocally as they oppose BSA policies. FOG, did you mean "said"? FOG, did you mean "pointing"? Ha!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA470Firstaider Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Okay, now I get to defend myself. First off I did not call anyone stupid, I called his comments stupid, meaning as defined by websters 5th edition dictionary pointless; worthless, meaning his entire sexist point of view isn't needed. The context of which the word stupid arose was in reference to his anti-female policy. I apologize for any disrespect it may have come across as, I would never slander, or insult an adult...but I have one question, had I left my age out how many people reading this post would have agreed? Boy Scouts has many ill warented views, both anti-female, anti-african american (and yes they do I live next to DC, and I see the way they are treated), and judging by these posts and my eperience, anti-youth run which is the entire basis of socuting. Scouters have a different job from scouts for a reason, its so the boys can lead the troop, patrol, etc... and the adults can cover health and safety, and even that can be boy led seeing as I am part of our emergency services explorer post. Every year at the camp that I am SPL for for our council I see the same thing. Adults complaining about women in camp, and adults trying to tell me because they are older they know more, and FOG said I haven't lived enough to see, well at the same time I will bet that he hasn't done the same things as me. So were even?...no, but we all have our ups and downs...well at this point I feel like since I'm a youth I might as well go back with all the other youth who don't care because each and everytime a "kid" or a "MTV junkie" or a "punk" try's to join a discussion they become bashed, and brutalized...Well maybe it's my fault for caring to much, or maybe it's scouter.com's for not having a special youth section where we can be alone I don't know but this is getting sadder by the day. -Jeff A 16 year old "brat","MTV junkie", and "punk" who also happens to be VIGIL, part of EMS, JASM, and an overall seeing the number of times I have been cited for volunteering and community service a good citizen, but what do I know anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 "meaning his entire sexist point of view isn't needed." Oh, how New Age and enlightened. I find it interesting that you've deleted your profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Scoutmom, if I were you I would not allow myself to be troubled by anyone's comments on this subject, particularly not those of someone whose self-assigned role in this forum seems to be to get as many people as riled up as possible... followed by someone else who, though too young to have experienced the joys and challenges of parenting a pre/teenager, feels free to comment on how you should do so. Basically I agree with BobWhite and OGE. The BSA says you can be a leader, and you want to be a leader, so the naysaying is irrelevant. The attitude of the other leaders in your troop is relevant, but you say you can "deal," so you do the best you can. And how you raise your son, including when you choose to be on camping trips with him, is nobody's business but yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA470Firstaider Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 If my profile is missing, it is because of a computer problem when I last updated it yesterday changing SPL, to JASM... I have no control over the system, and frankly fail to see what if anything that has to do with this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Sure is interesting to see this particular rock turned over... Anybody feeling a tiny bit embarassed about having one of your buttons pressed? Haven't you learned to consider the source of some of this nonsense? Or the reasoning(!) behind it? And ask yourselves how your reaction to BSA470Firstaider might have been different if he hadn't identified himself as a youth? I'm astounded at some of the reactions surfacing in this thread (but certainly not all of them) and ashamed to think that we serve the same program(s) together. We EARN respect from the youth that we serve, and while it may not satisfy our needs(!) we cannot require it from them. Kinda defeats the purpose - Think about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I heartily endorse the participation of women in scouting. Most of the moms I have dealt with are not overly protective of their boys in scouting. Many moms support having their boys in scouting precisely to put them into a situation where they will have to be more self reliant. Women are just more volunteers, and should be treated as such. If more men had stepped forward to actively participate as volunteers over the years maybe scouting would not have evolved as it has. I view the eager active participation of women in volunteer positions that there aren't enough men to fill as a negative comment on the unwillingness of many men to support their sons. I don't think the women volunteers see it that way -- that is just a personal interpretation. I have mentioned before a scout troop in Carpenteria, CA about ten years ago that was prohibited from going to scout camp at that time because the unit had no adult male leaders. The leadership was dominated by single moms trying to deliver scouting to their sons. Where were the dads? In front of the TV? At a sports bar with their buddies? Out with their trophy wives? This particular troop had to litigate for the right to go to summer camp. Of course now, summer camps have figured out ways to deal with this, but the troglodytes running that council at that time had to be dragged into court to see the truth of what they were doing. They were willing to deny a full scouting experience to a group of boys over bathroom issues. The active involvement of women in scouting is just a reflection of what is going on in the larger society. Let's get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreaScouter Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 There is a subtle, but important difference in the way GSUSA and BSA treats leaders of the "opposite sex". In BSA, I can be the only adult in a room with two or more Boy Scouts. As a registered leader in GSUSA, I cannot be the only adult in a room with any number of Girl Scouts -- there must be a female leader present, too. I don't carry a copy of GSUSA "Safety Wise" with me, so I paraphrase. I understand their rule, follow it meticulously, and am not complaining about it -- just pointing out that it's different. Regarding volunteers, and their gender, it doesn't matter to me. I look at motivation, dedication, and results, not which bathroom they go into. We've had female committee members, but no female ASMs, although I've worked with/around them at District/Council events. No worries at all, with one potential if far-fetched concern. Many of my parents are single moms, for whom a main benefit of Scouting for their sons is spending time with a positive male role model. If the unit had all female leaders, these families wouldn't be getting what they consider a main benefit of membership. Again, a far-fetched example, but there you go. KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 KS said, "just pointing out that it's different." Not just different but sexist, however, sexism against men is PC and encouraged today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonNC Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Scoutmom, I've not been as active here, as I was for awhile, because of so much of the negative. I'm not into all the back-biting and fighting. I'm into Scouting with a capital S. First of all, women (my being one has nothing to do with this comment) are valuable to BSA for many reasons. Baking and check book balancing not being two of them exclusively. In my community, we'd have way fewer troops, crews, ships, AND packs........we are a military community and lose both male and female leadership to the ills of the nation on a frequent basis. This past summer, I was the acting SM, the female troop secretary and I took 13 boys to summercamp that they would have had to stay home from without us. The SM and ASMs were in Iraq or in hospital for cancer surgery. It gave me great pleasure to turn the troop intact back to the SM when he returned. What will happen when their rotation comes up again? The same thing. There is no way to leave all those boys out, we absorbed boys from other troops until their leaders returned from the war. Co-operation and working together are just not in some souls. Give it no more thought, do what is right by living the Oath and Law. We are great teachers, we are NOT all emotional shaky creatures, and we can do MORE than just have children. Those boys in our troop know that I am not going to make decisions or take their right to their decisions away. I never have to say much at all, even safety issues are handled by the boys. They police themselves if given the opportunity. I never work where I'm not wanted. There is no cabin camping for our troop. We tent camp, summer and winter. The boys have made that choice. Not because women are sometimes the only ones that are around to accompany them, but because they like tent camping. Our Scouts are given JLT, they know that their words are choices. No one can demand respect. But I really think that your words represent your soul and your ability. YOUNG and OLD. No one has the right to make another feel bad about what they feel. The better part of discretion is to keep negativity to yourself rather than hurt someone's feelings, wouldn't you say? The Golden Rule applies in written word as well as spoken word. Enough, I didn't mean to get so long winded, but in all my years of Scouting....this is the worst place for finding negative so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouterPaul Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 KoreaScouter Has the two deep leadership requirements changed? It is my understanding that the only registered adult volunteer that can be in a room with 2 Scouts and no other adult is a registered Merit Badge Counselor who does not serve in another leadership role (Scoutmaster, Committee Member ect.) I'm not knowledgeable about GSUSA. Can a GSUSA leader (female) be alone with the youth? If so, it would appear that all PC aside the Boy Scouts have a stronger policy. To quote someone much smarter than myself - you reap what you sow. I you want to be treated with respect you must treat others with respect. YIS Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 "I can be the only adult in a room with two or more Boy Scouts." KoreaScouter is not incorrect. Two-deep leadership refers to trips and outings. Its not to be confused with one-on-one contact. See chapter 1 of the Guide to Safe Scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 " Can a GSUSA leader (female) be alone with the youth?" Yes but evil men cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts