Women in the BSA

[scoutmom]

I find it hard to believe that no one commented on this statement by Fat Old Guy in one of the uniforming threads:

 

"I don't think that girls or women belong in any BSA program above Cub Scouts but that's not the way the program exists today so I just have to suffer during estrogen laden campouts."

 

So, my question is, what's the general consensun here on the forum? Are you for or against women as active, contributing leaders in the BSA (above the Cub Scouting Program)?

 

Obviously, being a Mom, and being a Scouter, I feel women are an asset to the program. I understand and respect the "male bonding" arguement. That's the reason I wanted my son involved in Scouts to begin with. I never intended to become a leader. However, I found this to be a program that I truly admired and believed in. I wanted to do what I could to support the program. I still do. I don't see why, just because he is now a Boy Scout, I should change my mind about that. I do not want to go on every camping trip or shadow him at every troop meeting. I feel it is important that my son enjoy some time away from his mother, and camping trips give him that opportunity. They allow him to become more independent. I do want to be able to go camping, if I choose to do so. If my son asks me to go on a trip with him, there is a reason for that and I will be there to find out what that reason might be. I don't care who likes it or who doesn't like it. That is my child and I will not put him in a situation that is uncomfortable for him. I think most parents, father or mother would agree. I am currently registered with a Troop that believes that a woman's only role in the BSA is baking and fund raising. I happen to have more Scouting experience and Training (currently working my ticket) than more than a few of the ASM's in the Troop. The prevailing attitude in this Troop does not make me happy, but, this is the Troop my son chose, so I deal with it. I'm not happy about it, but I can deal.

 

So you know my opinion, how about yours?

 

 

[BSA470Firstaider]

Well FOG has spoken again, I remember this same argument about a year a go, some people just don't seem to grow out of the pre World War age where women were meant to run the household and thats it. Well BSA just like the World Wars needs good citizens to run its program. And just like in the World Wars they have branched out to women. So...Whats your point other than you wanna make stupid ill warented comments.

 

Women do belong in scouting and not just to balance checkbooks. I hate to break it to people but where do you think babies come from...(hint: it wasn't a storke). Women have just as much of a right and responsibility to the Cub and Boy Scouting program.

 

Women add a second viewpoint, they give scouts a motherly figure to go to, and overall they know the same amount if not more outdoor information. Over the years as a scout (yes thats right i'm 16) I have seen a lot of ignorance. A very close scouter friend who was like a second mom to me ran a camp for several years, and she was a woman.

 

In reference to the estrogen comment, you wouldn't be here if estrogen didn't exist, and while as it would be a more accepting world, you wouldn't be here.

 

Finally, before I manage to type my brains out into this some of the best people i've met through boy scouts have been female both adult and youth. My girlfriend is a venterer, and is one of the most accepting people I know.

 

So in conclusion FOG, grow up and look around. Theres a good chance that heaven forbid you get hit by a semi and FD and EMS rolls onto scene and a woman gives u the breath of air thats saves you or discharges 300 Joules of electricity precisely into your heart to save your life and regain your pulse. Think about everyday life, look around, women can do the same things men can and possibly do them better.

 

So take a look around before you make another comment.

[Eamonn]

As far as I'm concerned I'm all for females in the BSA.

Our District does not as yet have any female Scoutmasters but there seems to be an increasing number of female ASM's. We have a newly formed Crew that has a female adviser. So at the Unit level it does seem that the women are more visible and on the move. We were the first district in the Council to have a female DE.There was a certain amount of trepidation before she started. Most of it from us guys at the District level, we were unsure how the old time male leaders would accept her. It went without a hitch. This might be because at the time we had a female District Commissioner. This Lady who was a teacher ran COPE courses during the summer at Council Summer camps, was a Vigil member of the OA. Served on both Cub Scout and Boy Scout Wood Badge staff and went on to become a DE in the Washington D.C. Area.She is a great friend of mine and at times I do seek her advise and counsel.

Just as I think that there is a need for females to be in Crews with female members I do think that there is a need for male members to be at most Boy Scout outings. It is sad that some females feel the need to try and "Out Perform" their male counterparts. I do belong to the generation that still holds a door open for a Lady and I do watch my P's and Q's when there are females around, which isn't a bad thing. The bottom line is that we are all trying to do the best job that we can for the youth that we serve. I would hope that in this day and age we would never allow male or female, black or white Christian or non-Christian to get in the way of this service.

Eamonn

[BSA470Firstaider]

Well FOG has spoken again, I remember this same argument about a year a go, some people just don't seem to grow out of the pre World War age where women were meant to run the household and thats it. Well BSA just like the World Wars needs good citizens to run its program. And just like in the World Wars they have branched out to women. So...Whats your point other than you wanna make stupid ill warented comments.

 

Women do belong in scouting and not just to balance checkbooks. I hate to break it to people but where do you think babies come from...(hint: it wasn't a storke). Women have just as much of a right and responsibility to the Cub and Boy Scouting program.

 

Women add a second viewpoint, they give scouts a motherly figure to go to, and overall they know the same amount if not more outdoor information. Over the years as a scout (yes thats right i'm 16) I have seen a lot of ignorance. A very close scouter friend who was like a second mom to me ran a camp for several years, and she was a woman.

 

In reference to the estrogen comment, you wouldn't be here if estrogen didn't exist, and while as it would be a more accepting world, you wouldn't be here.

 

Finally, before I manage to type my brains out into this some of the best people i've met through boy scouts have been female both adult and youth. My girlfriend is a venterer, and is one of the most accepting people I know.

 

So in conclusion FOG, grow up and look around. Theres a good chance that heaven forbid you get hit by a semi and FD and EMS rolls onto scene and a woman gives u the breath of air thats saves you or discharges 300 Joules of electricity precisely into your heart to save your life and regain your pulse. Think about everyday life, look around, women can do the same things men can and possibly do them better.

 

So take a look around before you make another comment.

[dan]

The SPL for my wood badge course was a woman.

My ticket counselor was a woman.

My ticket counselor worked at Philmont for 3 years.

The BSA program is better off with these 2 females in the program, than if they where not in the program.

It is not the gender of a person that makes them a good leader.

Now go work your ticket!

(This message has been edited by dan)

[Fat Old Guy]

I find it interesting that GSUSA makes a big deal about having women as leaders to present a positive role model but BSA is PC and only wants "adults" as role models.

 

I also find it interesting that women seem to want to get involved in men's activities but you rarely seem men clamoring to get into a women's school, gym or club.

 

FirsrAider dude I was going to comment on your snotty, punk, teenaged mouth but I'll refrain from doing so.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Bob White]

I have met and worked with a number of fine people in the scouting program. Given the choice of; a grumpy committee member who doesn't like the uniform, the handbook, kids today or their parents, or; a woman who wants to learn and follow the scouting program, I'd want the woman to work with. Besides being a better leader and role model, she would undoubtedly be better company.

 

It is not the gender of the person that makes them a good leader of the scouting program, but the character they bring with them that matters.

 

 

 

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Hi Scoutmom,

 

Mr FatOldGuy is rather known for contrarian type statements and is known to pull peoples chains at times, so don't think he is repersentative of this forum on any position. Then again, I don't know of any one poster on this forum that is repersentative of the forum, just a bunch of scouters (more or less with at least one notable exception)who swap ideas and stories and points of view.

 

As far as my view of women in scouting, ask Outdoor Thinker not only how I think, but how I act...

[BSA470Firstaider]

First of all FOG you edited your message to slow, and I saw the bit about i'll take it from an adult but not from you.

 

Why's it really matter how old I am if I am right?

 

I'm sorry if you don't like being wrong, or you don't like a youth voicing his opinion. If the members of this forum feel I am out of line let them make it known whereas I will be able to correct myself, otherwise I fail to see why you continue to be part of a movement you no longer seek to accept.

[OutdoorThinker]

First, on the issue of males as Girl Scout leaders, Girl Scouts actual dont have a problem with it, normally, however, the Girl Scouts would like to see a female leader also. I had a male Girl Scout leader for a year, I know of a troop where a mother and a father coed from Daisies through Senior Girl Scouts and it was a succesful troop. When their daughter was a camp counselor, the father would come up to camp and do different activities with the girls...one winter camping trip he taught us how to snow shoe.

 

As you all can imagine, I am all for women in Boy Scouting. I am an ASM and I was a counselor at summer camp. I hadnt even thought about becoming an ASM before I sat down with some of the leaders of the troop my crew is attached to and the Council Executive asked me if I would become an ASM.

 

I think that if an adult wants to get involved in volunteering for the Boy or Girl Scouts, they shouldnt be turned away because of gender.

[OutdoorThinker]

One quick question, when its stated that women shouldnt be in BSA above Cub Scouting, does that including Venturing too?

[Sturgen]

To start out, I agree, in part with the large almost dead man, ok, wait, give me a second to explain before the lynching. I am a firm believer in Boy Scouts being an exclusively male organization. The reason for this is that although it may not be officially one of the goals of scouting, the troops job is to turn a boy into a man, which can not be done when you have mommy watching over his shoulder. In many ways den mothers are preferable to den fathers in the earlier Cubbie years, and I have no problem with female advisors in venturing, although I do believe it is advisable to have every registered member of a venturing crew, male, female, youth, and adult, be relatively young (say under 35) as well as preventing any parents acting as advisors in their sons/daughters crew.

 

Scoutmom:

That is my child and I will not put him in a situation that is uncomfortable for him.

If you want your son to grow and mature into a self-sustaining man then you will let him learn to deal with uncomfortable situations on his own, with out you there to help him with a blanket and pacifier.

 

I happen to have more Scouting experience and Training (currently working my ticket) than more than a few of the ASM's in the Troop.

This is a slight side bar but just because you have gone through woodbadge doesnt mean you have more experience, all of the best leaders I know have never gone through woodbadge, and a few that I have know have been turned into poorer leaders by woodbadge, I freely admit however that I have not gone through the program, I am trying to save up funds and/or convince my council to pay for me to go through the week program.

 

BSA470Firstaider:

I hate to break it to people but where do you think babies come from..

I dont believe that FOG is saying women arent necessary to the survival of humanity.

 

Women add a second viewpoint, they give scouts a motherly figure to go to

Just a shot in the dark, but arent mothers there as motherly figures?

 

some of the best people i've met through boy scouts have been female both adult and youth

In regards to the youth I would agree, and I have met a few mothers whom were simply mothers of coworkers at camp, great women, support the program, but not by butting in and taking charge where the boys should be leading. But also the worst Scouters I have met have been female, both youth and adult.

 

Think about everyday life, look around, women can do the same things men can and possibly do them better.

Im all for equal rights, but your forgetting one big thing women cant do, get drafted

 

Fat Old Guy:

I also find it interesting that women seem to want to get involved in men's activities but you rarely seem men clamoring to get into a women's school, gym or club.

Most likely if a grown man did, he would face being viewed as / accused of being a pedophile.

 

As a 19 yr old scouter I may face the same criticism as firstaider. I readily admit that the abilities of the leader are more important than their sex, but their ability to control their emotions is also important, and you cant have a venture leader and camp cook, storm off in a temper tantrum because two 18 yr olds were better at her job than she was. In contrast two of the best scouters I know is a young married couple (in their early 20s) both of whom do more than their share for the council, and scouting in general. The women is the best archery director I have ever seen, being able to have 85% of the boys in her archery class pass the merit badge. I also am a strong supporter of youth females being able to be elected into the OA through a Crew, two young ladies I can think of specifically who deserve to be members of the order, more than several members of my lodge.

To summarize:

Women in venturing great

Mothers in venturing not so great

Women in troops not so great

Mothers in troops counter productive

 

 

[Bob White]

The mission of scouting is not to turn boys into men. How does one deliver a scouting program without understanding its purpose?

 

"Im all for equal rights, but your forgetting one big thing women cant do, get drafted"

 

Sure they can, all it takes is for congress to say so. Who is to say if the draft is needed again that women wouldn't be a part of it?

 

Remember, even the current group of age eligible men don't know what it means to be drafted. The draft hasn't existed for 30 years. The next Congress that has to make that decision might draft women. In the mean time since no one is drafted it's an empty issue.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

First Aid dude sniveled, "Why's it really matter how old I am if I am right?"

 

You see, the problem is that you have't lived long enough to be rude to me.

 

TTFN.

 

Sturgen opined, "As a 19 yr old scouter I may face the same criticism as firstaider"

 

Not if aren't a rude, snot faced punk.

 

Bobo White asserted, "The mission of scouting is not to turn boys into men."

 

Not just men, good men. The Scoutmaster's Handbook says, "You are involved in one of the most important and meaningful endeavors of all -- that of turning boys into good men."

 

OT Claimed, "First, on the issue of males as Girl Scout leaders, Girl Scouts actual dont have a problem with it, normally, however, the Girl Scouts would like to see a female leader also."

 

Not quite right. They don't like to see a female leader "also," they require a female leader. A man cannot be the primary leader of a troop and men are treated as pariahs on campouts.

 

 

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

Our Local OA Lodge Advisor, every pound a man, is also a Girl Scout Leader, says so on his car and he is quite proud of it. On the Advancement Committee I have a Girl Scout Leader who is also the Advancement Chair for the troop her son is in. Neither has indicated that men are pariahs on the camp-outs that THEY attend. P>(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)