Eagle Candidates wearing uniform at ELSP

[John-in-KC]

Ed,

 

Chill. Relax, dude.

 

From my read, Eagle90 was referring to the fact that his Council requires Tour Permits for ELSPs done offsite from the regular meeting place.

 

I think he understands full well the purpose/function of the TP process

 

Does that make sense?

 

John

[evmori]

I wasn't referring to his post, John. I was referring to Bob's. I'm pretty sure (don't have the resources with me) that same wording is in National's version, too.

[Bob White]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

Wow that was some "edit".

 

Lets try again.

I did not say that the tour permit was a local council document, I said that the Eagle packet was a locally produced document. I said that for the simple reason that Eagle90 said it was a locally produced packet.

 

National does not require a tour permit for a youth that is going to an individual event in or out of scouting. For instance... when an individual scout or scouter goes to an OA event he or she is not required to have a tour permit of any kind. If a Scout goes to a pack meeting as a den chief or for any reason he does not need a tour permit. If a scout goes to help staff a day camp he does not need a tour permit. If a scout meets his patrol for a swim at a local pool he does not need a tour permit.

 

There is no reason for a scout to need a tour permit to go lead an Eagle project.

 

IF the troop goes to help then they need a tour permit.

 

So I did not misinterpret anyone's post. And I would appreciate knowing why that assertion I did was not struck but my explanation was.

 

Thank you

BW

[RememberSchiff]

As eagle90 mentioned, some councils do require local tour permit for parts of an Eagle service project. Some reasons include documenting that youth protection guidelines are being followed or as a service tracking log as councils did before the National Good Turn website started.

 

Here's one:

http://wm.ppbsa.org/Advancement/Eagle_Scout_Elements.pdf

 

" Funding

b. Fund raising projects require a tour permit, detailed plan and an approved BSA fund raising permit."

 

" ADULT INVOVEMENT:

a. BSA policy requires 2 adults (Youth Protection Trained) to be present at any BSA activity."

 

 

Here's another

http://www.monvalleyboyscouts.org/upldDocuments/

Unit461/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Eagle%20Scout%20

Project%20Guidelines%20for%20Scouts.pdf

"If you are transporting Scouts make file a Local Tour Permit."

 

 

Here's another

http://www.frenchcreek-bsa.org/wtd/advancement/

life_to_eagle/project_safety.pdf

 

Reminds Eagle candidates that the Sweet 16 Safety points including #12 Permits applies to all activities.

 

 

 

http://www.pioneeringprojects.org/resources/ebooks/

LeaderTrainingConference.pdf

Eagle Project Q & A

"IS A TOUR PERMIT REQUIRED? Yes. A tour permit is required any time a Scout activity takes place outside the normal meeting location"

 

 

 

Local scout council set local tour permit policies.

 

 

[eagle90]

I had the opportunity to meet with our Scout Executive this morning and asked her this question. Her response was "Of course its a Scouting activity". I then asked her about the "Outside the sphere of Scouting" phrase. She said that means you cannot do your Eagle project for Baden Powell Boy Scout Camp, but you can do your project for Baden Powell State Park, Baden Powell Lutheran Church, or Baden Powell Middle School. Of course she's only a professional. I'm sure some people here know better......

[Bob White]

And your district executive has how many years experience in scouting? And she has been to what...MAYBE three training courses? NONE of which have anything to do with the Boy Scout Advancement program! Their training is not in program policies and procedures but in money, manpower, and membership management.

 

Schiff

The YP rules have NO relationship to an Eagle project since the activity is not the responsibility of a scout unit, council or BSA. Also there is no requirement for any other member of scouting to be present, and YP only applies to BSA adult members in relationship to youth participants at a scouting event.

 

Should a scout unit be involved as volunteers at the project then the YP rules apply ONLY to the adult members of that unit. The candidate is not there as a troop member but as the volunteer project leader for the benefitting organization.

 

To further prove that YP is not tied to the tour permit. If you go to an OA event as an adult member do you need a tour permit? No, because you are not going as a troop activity but as an individual.

 

Are you bound by the Youth Protection policies of the BSa while at the OA activity? YES

 

So having to follow YP is not related to the tour permit. It is realated to your function as a scouytt leader at a unit, council, regional, or national event.

 

If you go to Jamboree on staff do you need to have a tour permit? NO

 

Because you are not there as a troop activity, you are there as an individual adult leader.

 

Are you bound by the YP rules? Yes because you are at a Scout activity.

 

FINALLY, If you volunteer to help at a Rotary Club Pancake Breakfast, do you need a tour permit? NO because the event is ...ready....outside the sphere of scouting.

 

Are you bound by the BSA Youth Protection Policies? NO!

 

Why? Because you are not there as a scout leader but as an individual doing a service project for another organization...outside the sphere of scouting.

 

Can your volunteer work for the Rotary be considered toward service to the community when being considered for a BSA recognition. YES! Even though the activity is outside of scouting the BSA recogognizes the service as something you did, and it is considered toward your recognition, JUST LIKE the Eagle service project for a youth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

Not my rules, I cited examples of councils that require local tour permits for Eagle Scout service projects. No one was talking about other scout activities you mentioned - OA or Jamboree.

 

Sounds like you are advising Eagle candidates in those councils to ignore their council rules as they work on their Eagle projects.

 

[evmori]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

No, I am explaining how the council's use of the permit in this case is inconsistent with the specific use and purpose as stated on the form which comes from the national office.

 

In addition I was showing the error in your observation that "Some reasons include documenting that youth protection guidelines are being followed" as the local tour permit has no relationship to the use of YP policies for youth at an activity. YP policies are adult leader policies and are not attached to the use of a local tour permit. Adult scouters must follow the YP policies when working with scouts whether they needed to file a tour permit or not.

 

But no one is required to follow BSA policies at an activity done outside of the BSA. And the BSA says that the candidate does the project outside the sphere of scouting. Just as if a scout leader volunteered as a Rotary member to work at pancake breakfast he is not required to follow BSA policies since his work is done "outside the sphere of scouting".

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

Well good thing the Eagle service project is a scout activity, otherwise YP, a BSA policy, would not apply.

[Bob White]

Sigh...Okay Schiff riddle me this.

 

A young man is leading a project to build a playground area at a local shelter for battered women and their children. The work crew consists of volunteer workers from the shelter and members of the community as well as a few local representatives from the local carpenters union.

 

Which specific BSA Youth Protection rules must be followed and to whom do they apply, and who is the adult responsible for seeing they are followed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vicki]

Bob, I think you're making an unwarranted assumption when you assert lack of experience on the part of Eagle90's DE. That aside, when I was part of the district advancement process, I was also told that "outside the sphere" meant the intent of the project was to benefit some organization besides Boy Scouts. Made sense to me.

 

Vicki

[Bob White]

You were missinformed and I think if you walk with me through these questions you will see why.

[RememberSchiff]

So can this be wrapped up? I think Ed wants pie.

It has been shown that

- Scouts may wear their uniform during their Eagle Scout project which was the original question.

- Scouts are not restricted to wearing their uniforms to just scout activities.

- An Eagle Scout service project is a scout activity.

- Some councils require local tour permits for parts of the Eagle Scout service project.

 

No official BSA documents were presented that explicitly stated that the above practices are incorrect. Many examples were cited that the above have been common practices in the field for a considerable time. If in doubt, check with your Eagle Board.