Eagle Candidates wearing uniform at ELSP

[evmori]

It's a Scouting activity!

[Bob White]

What kind of a scouting activity? There are only a few kinds.

 

We've ruled out unit. That leaves a national activity, but that cannot be right since National learns about it after it has been done.

 

Regional? That can't be because region is never informed about projects.

 

Council? Are you suggesting that the service project is a Council Activity?

 

Those are the only types of Scouting activities that exist. So if indeed the Eagle Project is a scouting activity then which type of scouting activity is it?

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

What kind of a scouting activity? There are only a few kinds.

 

We've ruled out unit. That leaves a national activity, but that cannot be right since National learns about it after it has been done.

 

Regional? That can't be because region is never informed about projects.

 

Council? Are you suggesting that the service project is a Council Activity?

 

Those are the only types of Scouting activities that exist. So if indeed the Eagle Project is a scouting activity then which type of scouting activity is it?

 

Patrol outings are Scouting activities. Eagle Recognition Dinners are Scouting activities! OA Weekends are Scouting activities! Eagle projects are Scouting activities!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Thanks Ed, You have taken us to the next step in the logical progression of the discussion, although I doubt that was your intention.

 

Patrol Activities are "unit" activities, Eagle Recognitiopn Dinners are "council" activities", OA activities are "council, regional, or national" activities.

 

All Scout activities can be shown to belong to be the responsibility of the unit, the council/district, or Regional/National.

 

You have already agreed with the BSA that the project that is planned and led by boy using it to fullfill his Eagle service Requirement is not a unit activity, nor can you say it is regional or national. Your council will tell you correctly that it is not a council activity.

 

So if all scouting activities are Unit, council/district, or region/National, and the project being lead by the young man and being applied to his Eagle service requirement is none of those, then what kind of scout activity is it?

 

There is only one other thing you might call it, and if you do you will prove the BSA'a point that the project is outside the sphere of scouting.

 

So if the project is not an activity of the unit, council, or national, then what kind of scout activity is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vicki]

In our council the Eagle project is approved at the district level and the Eagle BOR is at the district level. The would put it pretty securely within the purview of the district.

 

Back to pie.

Vicki

[Bob White]

Vicki

The council/district advancement committee does not approve the activity, they approve whether the activity can be used toward the advancement requirement.

 

The council has no authority to tell the scout he cannot do the project since it is not their project, it belongs to the benefitting organization. The youth can do any service project he wants at any time. The council can only determine if it can be used for advancement.

 

Just as a boy can do any service he wants as a Star scout, but for it to count toward advancement the Scoutmaster must approve the work. But the Scoutmaster cannot tell the scout he cannot do the service. Nor does his acceptance of the work toward the advancement make it a troop activity.

 

Do not confuse the advancement committee's approval of the work toward a requirement with the council endorsing the activity as a council activity. Those are two entirely different things.

 

The council is responsible for liability on a council activity, they are not responsible for liability on a service project done by an individual for an outside organization just because there is a person leading it who also happens to be a scout, no matter what rank he might be.

 

Enjoy your pie, think about the difference between the council approving the work for advancement as opposed to approving the activity as a council activity.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Vicki]

Bob, I am not talking about a council activity, I am talking about a district activity. It really is that simple. I refuse to split these hairs any further. It's not worth the effort.

 

Vicki

[Bob White]

There is no difference between the two. The district approves the work toward the advancement but has no authority over the project itself. If the project were a district activity then the district could cancel it. But they cannot cancel a project that is not theirs, the project belongs to the benefitting organization.

 

As proof of that, the candidate can do the project whether the district approves it or not, so it cannot possibly be a District activity. All the district/council does is determine whether or not the work can be used toward the BSA advancement requirement.

 

(as an aside keep in mind that a district activity is a council activity. The district is nothing more than a geographic service area of the council. A sub committee as it were. The district has no legal force. The council is the corporation not the district. The district has no money, all funds are the council's.)

 

 

This is not splitting hairs. There is a huge difference between approving work for advancement, and making something a district/council activity. And while you may not understand the difference I'll bet there are a few people starting to see that they might be wrong about this being a Scouting activity and are actually beginning to understand that the work is done outside the sphere of scouting, meaning that it is not a unit, district/council, or region/national activity.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[BadenP]

Stick to your guns Vicki, and you are right its not worth arguing with Bob he is in his own little world, BOB WHITE SCOUTS OF AMERICA!, lol.

[evmori]

Ya missed my point Bob.

 

Your post

 

What kind of a scouting activity? There are only a few kinds.

 

We've ruled out unit. That leaves a national activity, but that cannot be right since National learns about it after it has been done.

 

Regional? That can't be because region is never informed about projects.

 

Council? Are you suggesting that the service project is a Council Activity?

 

Those are the only types of Scouting activities that exist. So if indeed the Eagle Project is a scouting activity then which type of scouting activity is it?

 

claims Those are the only types of Scouting activities that exist. Since that isn't true, why should we believe you regarding ELSP? A 20+year professional has told one of the posters here that a ELSP is a Scouting activity! You have always held the professional with high esteem! One would think you would take there word. Are you questioning a professional Scouter Bob? Isn't that something you claim one could be kicked out of Scouting for?

 

An ELSP is a Scouting activity. Plain & simple. If you are not a member of the BSA you can't earn Eagle! And the ELSP is a step in earning Eagle.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

BadenP After all those years as a professional (nearly 5 wasn't it?) the most you can offer on the topic is a personal attack? I would have thought that if I was wrong that you couuld have offered some sort of actualy BSA information to prove it. And yet all you could do is hurl another personal attack.

 

That pretty much proves that what I am sharing is accurate. Even with your years of professional experience you cannot show the project to be a scouting activity at the unit, council/district, or regional/national level.

 

It is a project outside of scouting that belongs to the benefitting organization. The coucil only approves whether the work can be applied toward an advancement requirement for the individual youth leading the project for the outside organization. The project itself is outside the sphere of scouting.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White]

All scouting activities are either unit activities, district/council activities, or region/national activities.

 

Which category would the Eagle project be? You cannot just proclaim it a scout activity. The activity has to be done by scouting at some program level. So at which level of scouting does an activity being done by an individual happen?

 

You cannot just say 'uh-uh you are wrong', and be taken seriously in any discussion. You need to show evidence to support your position. If you recall your training then you know that there are no other levels of scouting. And if you take a moment to honestly consider things you will have to realize that the project does not fall into any of these program levels. It is outside the sphere of scouting.

 

No level of scouting has control over the project, they can only determine if the work will be accepted for advancement, the project is done by and for the benefitting organization which is outside the sphere of scouting. If the project were a scouting activity then some level in scouting would have the authority to stop the project from taking place.

 

 

What level of scouting would that be?

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Now this is getting absurd! It's come down to what level of Scouting? Get serious!

 

Ask your DE in your district, Bob. Ask you Council exec! Ask someone at National! We know one professional that says it's a Scouting activity. I guess all you espoused before about trusting the professional was just, well, talk!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Its sad to see that a topic open for discussion by 10,000 forum members has been locked by a handful of folks that refuse to let one another hold a differing opinion.