Eagle Candidates wearing uniform at ELSP

[highcountry]

Typically our Eagle projects are a type of work that gungy cloths are the norm so Class A's are not even and issue. We did have one Eagle project late last Spring which was in the publuc eye, re-landscaping at tht local public library. Several scouts did some hours of work in at least their class A. The people in the community could see the local troop was active and contributing to the community which shed a good light on our troop and BSA in general. That to me creates a much large psoitive than the negative of breakin one of BSA's launrdy list of ridiculous, counter productive rules.

I don't see an egle project as something outside of scouting, it by it's nature is a part of it, the scout is doing the project as a requiement to be fullfilled for a scouting rank and others in the troop are helping as a troop and gaining community service hours from it, it is part of scouting, this seems clear to me.

A year or so ago, several of our scouts realized a very popular local animal shelter was in extreme financial trouble and did a small fund raiser to help them out. They even ended up getting a feature article in the local town paper complete with apicture of 2 scouts in class A uniforms presenting the funds to the shelter. The UC complimented us in seeing the article as it generated interest in several area troops and positive comments form the community, it put BSA in teh public eye and in a positve way wich was good for everyone. I guess we could have stuck to the letter of BSA's endless rules on this and not done any of this, the Animal Shelter would not have gotten the aid, the community would have not been reminded of the existance of teh troop or BSA and not public good will and recognition of the value of BSA and it's ideas would have been realized, but heck....we would have been sticking to BSA's rules.

[Hunt]

There simply is no rule prohibiting scouts from wearing uniforms while performing Eagle projects. In my opinion, this is a rather far-fetched extrapolation from the idea that the Eagle project is not a BSA activity, per se. While it is primarily an activity done for the organization benefitted, it is clearly also a BSA activity, since int is planned according to BSA critera and approved by BSA representatives.

On the other hand, requiring boys to wear uniforms in order to get advancement credit for working on an Eagle project is, in my opinion, unreasonably adding to the advancement requirements. The sensible approach is the one practiced by essentially all the units I've ever seen: don't wear the uniform for heavy work, but wear it for public contact. (Insurance really has nothing to do with this; wearing or not wearing the uniform will not affect whether insurance will cover the activity.)

[scoutldr]

In my council (er, I mean the "Council to which I donate tons of money and hours"), it is forbidden for scouts to raise funds for other organizations...ESPECIALLY while wearing the uniform.

[Beavah]

it is forbidden for scouts to raise funds for other organizations...

 

 

This is just gettin' funnier and funnier. Scoutldr, pray tell, how exactly do they stop the lads from sellin' band candy?

 

B

 

[Bob White]

That is a national policy not just a local one. Hunt the BSA advancement policies amd procedures says that the project is doen "outside the sphere of scouting". Can you think of of why you would wear the uniform when working at a job that was outside of the scouting program?

 

The messiness of the labor you are doing has nothing to do with why national sets rules for when you can and cannot wear the uniform.

 

The Eagle candidate does the project in the role of a community volunteer, not as a Boy Scout representing the unit, council or national office of the BSA. He should dress as a community volunteer not as a Boy Scout.

 

The sensible approach, I would hope, would be to learn and follow the rules of the program.

[evmori]

Bob,

The project is done for an organization outside the sphere of Scouting. The forms, approval process & requirements are all within the sphere of Scouting. To say an Eagle Project is outside the sphere of Scouting is misleading and wrong. What sphere does it belong?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

It belongs in the sphere of personal community service.

 

Here is what the BSA Advancement Policies and procedures says.

"The Eagle Scout service project provides the opportunity for the Eagle Scout Candidate to demonstrate his leadership skills that he has learned in Scouting. He does the project outside the sphere of Scouting."

(the underline was added by me as emphasis so that it would be clear that this is the position of the BSA and not something I pulled from thin air)

 

Just as you do scouting outside the sphere of your professional life, the Eagle scout does the projest outside the sphere of scouting. When you work you do so as a representative of your company not as a scouter even though you are one. You dress as a representative of your company because your employment is outside the sphere of scouting.

 

An Eagle candidate does his project as a community volunteer, not in representation of his unit, the council or the BSA. Since it is done outside the sphere of scouting he would not dress as a representative of the scouting pprogram.

 

In addition he is prohibited from seeking donations of money or materials representing himself as a Boy Scout or using the name and images of the BSA programs. He would seek the donations as a representative of the benefitting organization of the project. This also is a policy of the BSA and has been for many, many, years.

 

 

[evmori]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Bob White]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[John-in-KC]

If what you say is true, Bob, then I reasonably expect:

 

1) No ELSPs in your District and Council to be approved at EBOR if any serving member of the Boy Scouts of America provided support (youth or adult). The Candidate must show leadership by recruiting a volunteer work force outside of Scouting.

 

2) No uniform to be worn by the Eagle Candidate at any time: Marketing, District approval, execution, or wrap-up.

 

3) The Boy Scouts of America cannot take credit for ELSPs performed on their Good Turn For America Dot Org website. The projects are performed outside of Scouting.

 

If the Eagle Leadership Service Project is outside the sphere of Scouting, then it's outside. It cannot have one foot in the door and one foot outside.

 

I saw EagleSon's packet from National: They have a card in it encouraging reporting of the Good Turn service hours on the GTFA website.

[evmori]

Ditto to what Hunt posted!

 

If someone has chapter & verse that states the BSA uniform is not to be worn during an Eagle project, please post it. I doubt if this exists.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

John

I can tell you that the national's Eagle Scout service project guidleines, as well as the BSA advancment policies and procedures manual, states that the candidate can use whatever workforce he chooses and that no other scout need be involved.

 

I can tell you that the Advancement Policies and procedures manual says that the project is done outside the sphere of scouting.

 

I can tell you that the uniform and fundraising policies of the BSA prohibit the wearing of the uniform when raising money or seeking donations for any organization outside of scouting. These are all documented facts.

 

I can tell you that having coached well over 60 Life Scouts to Eagle that I follow the rules as did the scouts and the units involved, and it has never adversely affected the scout or the project in any way.

 

I can tell you that the BSA has aways accepted work done outside the unit toward advancement if it meets the criteria of the BSA. Keep in mind the BSA sets the rules in the BSA not the individual leader or unit. So the BSA can put their feet wherever they want.

 

Sorry you don't like the rules, I did not make them. Sorry you feel the need to atack the messenger.

[evmori]

Actually, if the Council Executive Committee approves the unit to wear their uniforms while fund raising, then it is permitted.

 

So when the Scout-not-in-uniform heads down to the local Home Depot & talks to the manager about donating or discounting materials he will need for his Eagle project ya don't think the manager will associate the project with the BSA?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10 (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

 

Who edited out my question & why?(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White]

I can tell you the rules that do exist, one is that the project is done outside the sphere of scouting and the other is that you cannot wear the uniform when seeking donations for organizations outside of scouting.

 

You are correct in repeating what I said about needing specific permission from the BSA to do so. That is given when the National office or local council are raising the funds with national's approval. As an example a council activity to collect cans to raise money for Habitat for Humanity.

 

Such a council sponsored event would be done within the sphere of scouting, unlike an individual's volunteer effort that is recognized by the BSA for their Eagle Project requirement, which is done outside the sphere of Scouting according to the BSA advancement policies and procedures.

 

[evmori]

Well, according to the Unit Money Earning Application

 

6. If a commercial product is to be sold, will the

fund-raising activity comply with BSA policy on

wearing the uniform?

The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily

for use in connection with Scouting activities.

However, council executive boards may approve use

of the uniform for any fund-raising activity.

 

it states any fund-raising activity. I don't see anything about National approval. Could it be your interpretation?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10