Scouts no longer wear the Scout Uniform!

[Justadad1999]

As the parent of a "Bear". when my son first joined Scouting as a Tiger Cub, after seeing the other kids wear anything they wanted, I decided that in order for my son to "feel" like he''s a complete part of scouting & hopefully set an example, I provided him with a complete full uniform including trousers, socks etc. I was a proud parent the first time he wore his entire uniform but then he hit me with a question that "floored" me. We had made a deal to be "scouts" together and his question was...

Dad, where is your complete uniform? Up until then I had only the shirt. To make a long story short, we as leaders MUST SET THE EXAMPLE for our children to follow. If we want them to look & act like scouts then we must also do the same NOW I have more than one complete uniform and now my 8 1/2 year old son inspects me! And I''m a Unit Commissioner so it goes to show you.

My son at the meetings is in full uniform AND even wears a "bragging vest" which others really admire.

 

So I think it''s a good idea for the kids AND leaders to be in full uniforms. If need be then you can open a "uniform bank", have fundraisers to purchase additional uniform items, or have a "Uniform Drive" in your community to collect scout uniforms, accessories & handbooks. But uniforms are necessary.

 

Larry Brooks

Unit Commissioner/Pack Trainer

Sam Houston Area Council

Texas Skies District

[MomToEli]

Tonight I get to field this whole uniform "issue", along with who knows what else (say a little prayer that I''ll keep my composure, if you would be so kind). So, I''ve been giving this a whole lot of thought.

 

I think the question I want to put to the crowd is: where do you draw the line? We get our boys involved in Cub/Boy Scouts, we find things that we don''t care for, so we start to change Scouts? Today, it''s a couple of kids that insist on not wearing their uniforms - btw, I had a den meeting Monday night - only two of ten did NOT wear their shirts - one wore a shirt from this summer''s day camp, the other a Cub Scout t-shirt - but what about tomorrow when some scout and his family decide that they don''t really care all that much for God and refuse to do the require Achievement for the Bear Rank? Am I supposed to sign off on a boy because that offends his sensibilities?

 

What I perceive this to be is a matter of rebellion - I don''t have to and you can''t make me. Well, they are correct about that. But how far do we take it? And since when do we join an organization and then start trying to change the organization to make it something we''d prefer? Try showing up for the Little League baseball game in shorts and a t-shirt, tell the coach you are going to play but not wear the uniform. See what happens to ya.

 

Okay - I''ve spouted off and I feel better.

[Pack212Scouter]

MomToEli,

 

You make a very good point.

 

Our society has come to believe that we can make anything we want more comfortable for us. What the uniform issue ignores is that in the process of making it easier ("lets run over from the game and not worry about the uniform") We are loosing part of what makes Scouting such a great learning tool for boys. The uniforms serves several purposes.

 

1) It gives the boys a sense of unity.

2) It gives the boys a sense of equality (no he''s wearing Abercromby while that one is in Wal-Mart).

3) It gives the boys responsibility in making sure that they are properly dressed.

4) It gives the boys a sense of decorum (ie, sloppiness is not acceptable in all aspects of your life).

5) It gives the boys pride in their achievements.

 

The uniform is very much an integral part of the Scouting program. What sometimes is forgotten is that while Scouting should be fun, entertainment is NOT the purpose of the Scouting program. It''s purpose is to help boys grow into resposible, caring, Godly (whatever God you believe in) young men.

[John-in-KC]

Last night (yes, a Thursday game) Eagle son''s HS had a football game. Noticed with Band, Cheerleaders, Dance, Color Guard... they didn''t change to uniforms til they were gathering to get on the busses. They changed back to ordinary clothes as soon as they could after getting back from the game.

 

Short version: Uniforming may not be a BSA only issue, it may be a social structure issue...

 

Food for thought.

[mtm25653]

Our new DE came to the troop meeting this week (so he could get cub applications from me) - he was impressed that most of the ~40 boys were in complete uniform. I looked around and commented that there were 6 leaders in complete uniform (SM wasn''t there - normally there are more leaders in uniform) and that those 2 facts were related.

[Gunny2862]

I MENTIONED(politely) at our most recent committee/parent meeting that we would be holding a uniform inspection in the near future. That it would be nice to know who did and didn''t have one complete uniform and if it had everything on it that it needed what did we need to do if someone couldn''t afford, etc.- and that it really would be preferred(notice - not required) if the complete uniform were worn for one of our upcoming Eagles ECOH.

 

I thought I was going to get lynched.

One example...

A former SM of the troop, who does fairly well financially - better than me - whose son is a first class, was immediately resistant and started in on the cost of outfitting the boy. Brought up the acceptability of other green trousers - which he doesn''t provide his boy now anyway, substituting blue jeans, etc. "After all - shouldn''t you be going for "Any" uniformity and not decreeing this?"

 

I though I''d see some resistance but not that kind, and not from someone who''d done the job before. And yes, I know what it costs I''m still wearing mine and trying to keep my son from sliding down the slope to where the rest of the troop is at. I felt pretty shell-shocked by the vehemence of the, and widespread, reaction - especially since I was especially careful about my phrasing and there was no way I should have been accused of the decreeing/ forcing of the issue.

 

Suggestions?

[BrentAllen]

Gunny,

Welcome to the war! It amazes me what lengths some parents will go to in order to keep their sons from the evil Scout pants!

 

I know you haven''t had a chance to go to WB yet. When you do, you will see what the BSA teaches about resolving conflict and leading change. For now, if it were me in your shoes, I would stick to my guns, knowing I am doing the right thing, and I am fighting the good fight.

 

To the former SM, I would point out that you are trying to get the Troop in line with BSA policy. I would let him know that Troops don''t have the right to set a different uniform policy. If cost is a factor, he can look on ebay, where he should be able to find pants for under $20. Or he can buy the new Switchbacks, which are also great for camping. His son doesn''t go camping in blue jeans, does he? If so, that is another bad habit he needs to break.

At our summer WB course, we taught a little lesson on uniforming. We suggested having an annual inspection, tied to the recharter. Invite your Unit Commissioner to come in and lead the inspection team. Announce the inspection well in advance - you want this to be a positive experience, not a "gotcha!" Give the boys copies of the inspection forms ahead of time, so they have time to prepare. Have one inspector for every 8 - 10 boys, so it doesn''t take too much time. The night of the troop meeting, introduce the UC and his team and let them do their thing. Afterwards, award a patch or prize for every boy that reaches a certain score. Let the boys know how proud you are of them for working on their uniform, and encourage them to continue.

 

You are going to have naysayers any time you try to make some changes. You usually only hear from them when the change is instituted, and after a couple of weeks, you won''t hear anything else. Stick to your guns, move forward, lead on the issue, and thank everyone for their input, good or bad.

[Trevorum]

That''s a good suggestion, Brent. I also suggest that REGULAR uniform inspections (monthly) will serve to raise the conciousness of the fellows (and their parents) about what is expected. They don''t have to be complicated or heavy handed, just a clear message. Finally, mtm makes an excellent point: the best way to get the Scouts to wear the uniform is to have uniformed adults.

 

All that being said, JohnKC also make a cogent observation about more general attitudes towards uniforms; it may just be an uphill struggle ...

[Beavah]

Yah, Gunny... Brent gives yeh some good thoughts, so let me join in, too.

 

I think yeh gotta ask yourself "Is this the Hill to Die On?"

 

All good troops are constantly figurin'' out (with both their youth and adult leaders) how to get better. Where are we at, where do we want to be, and what is da next step to get there?

 

Better Patrol Method. Better Outdoor Program. Better Adult Association. More experienced adults. Better Youth Leadership Training and preparation. Better emphasis on Values. Better Uniforming. Better use of Advancement. Better Personal Growth.... and other technical things, eh, like Better Recruiting and Better managing of kid behaviors and better support for our ADHD kids and better first aid skills and more work on Safety.

 

It might be that from where your troop is at, uniforming is da next step toward where you want to be. Or it might be that it''s down the list, and workin'' on building Patrol Method is more important. Or something else.

 

All change is going to meet resistance. You''re goin'' to get flak about Uniforming and you''re going to get flak about Patrol Method. If you try to do too much at once you''ll burn out or get run out. Some individual things are worth havin'' a shootout over, but shootouts leave bodies on the ground, and as oft as not those are kids'' bodies lyin'' there after the adults are done.

 

Choose your fights. If uniforming ain''t the next step for your program, then don''t let it become the distraction that sinks you. Spend your capital on what''s goin'' to matter most. If uniforming is the next step for your troop, then by all means address it. I''d just suggest flanking maneuvers rather than Brent''s frontal assault. Fewer bodies at the end of the day.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

Gunny,

 

Good advice from Beavah. Take stock of your unit. Figure out your vision, goals, and steps to make each happen. Leverage your PLC.

 

Choose your engagements. Remember the two fundamentals of offense and defense:

 

Offense chooses time and means of attack.

Defense chooses the place.

 

And keep having fun

[FScouter]

Yeah, it seems the ones that don''t want to pay the two dollars for a uniform are the most belligerent about insisting that the rest of the group drop to their lack-of-uniform level. There''s no point in fighting them over it, and certainly no sense in dying on a hill. Go ahead and plan your uniform inspection, praise and reward the boys or patrols that excel in the uniform method. The blue-jeans crowd can look on while the uniformed boys earn their uniform inspection patch, pocket knife, or whatever public recognition is due. Move on without the others. Some will decide to run and catch up.

[GernBlansten]

MegaDittos Beav,

Uniforming is the easiest of the methods to accomplish (especially in an adult led unit), yet without the other methods established, will probably drive new scouts away.

Imagine joining a troop that didn''t do much more than uniform inspections. Not fun.

 

Our unit has a great outdoor method and we are currently working on the patrol method. Our leaders uniform properly (save me as I won''t wear the dorky socks ) but we don''t push the issue too much, yet. Leadership by example. Its just lower on the to do list. We are truly putting all our effort in the patrol method and being boy led. We don''t sweat the petty stuff, or pet the sweaty stuff.

[BrentAllen]

Gern,

I need a favor, please. I checked my Scoutmaster Handbook and I can''t find the priority ranking of the Methods. My copy must be missing it - could you please post them, in order, so I can be a good SM and make sure we get them in the right order? If it''s not too much of a bother, please let me know which of the Methods are important, and which are "petty." Silly us, we thought we could work on them all at the same time. I''m such a greenhorn!

 

My SM Handbook says that "A Scout troop functions best when all eight methods are employed."

 

Our poor boys, we force them to endure an Annual Inspection, in December. Is that all we do? Well, if you only came to one Troop meeting a year, and it happened to be that one, then I guess you could stick to your claim.

 

I''m amazed to see how many "leaders" run up the white flag when it comes to uniforming - "we can''t get our boys in uniform, so nobody else can either, unless the adults are running the troop." You guys surrender faster than the French! Maybe we can come up with a special patch for your troops - a nice big white flag with "Uniform Method" on it and the red "No" circle & bar over the wording. B^)

 

We have excellent uniforming. We have not lost any boys because we are in full uniform. We have not had any "shoot-outs" with any "bodies" left behind. Too bad others can''t simply congratulate troops on good uniforming and try to improve it in their own units. I guess the site of a well uniformed troop is just too tough to deal with, when they look back at their own troop. Time to scramble for some excuses.

[GernBlansten]

Aw, Brent, now don''t get your dorky socks all in a wad.

 

Do you really think a crisp uniform entices boys to join or is it the outdoor program?

 

When you recruit, do you say "Join us and we''ll show you how to dress in a correct and complete uniform" Or do you say "We camp every month and go canoeing, backpacking, climbing, shooting, hiking, biking, swimming, orienteering and sailing."

 

I understand uniforming is really, REALLY important to you, but to tell you the truth, the leaders I associate with (both from my unit and others in our district) its way down the priority list.

 

Giving the boys opportunities to do cool stuff in the woods is our priority. The uniform really doesn''t help us there. It doesn''t work for that, its just not practical for that. It works well for parlor scouts at indoor meetings and those who want to look pretty for parades.

 

If I had to choose between a unit that had a great outdoor program and one that uniformed correctly, I''d choose the former. I think most boys would too.

 

No, I can''t recite page and paragraph to the prioritization of the 8 methods (I doubt you can either), but common sense dictates you must have a functional outdoor program first to attract the boys.

 

I''m not saying you can''t do both but if I had to choose...

[BrentAllen]

"No, I can''''t recite page and paragraph to the prioritization of the 8 methods (I doubt you can either),"

 

McFly!!! Of course you can''t, because they aren''t prioritized! They are all equal!

 

Here''s a little hint - you don''t have to choose between an exciting outdoor program and a well uniformed troop. You can have both. I''ll repeat that, in case you or Beavah missed it. You can have both.

 

Yeah, the uniform doesn''t draw boys to joing Scouting. Neither does learning citizenship, character development or mental & physical fitness. Know any boys who want to join for adult association? How about the ideals? Personal growth? Those things don''t draw boys either, but (turn on bright flashing neon light) THEY ARE SCOUTING. Do you choose to ignore those Aims & Methods as well? If so, it sounds like you have a social camping club, instead of a Boy Scout troop.

 

For the record, we say "Boy Scout Troop 494 meets regularly on Tuesday nights from 7:15 - 9:00 pm in Room A 200. The Troop schedules a camping trip or outing nearly every month - our Scouts love to go camping! Troop 494 is traditional Boy Scouting at it''s best - boys learning scouting skills, values, leadership and how to have fun in the great outdoors!" Notice there isn''t anything about the uniform.

 

How many "No Uniform Method" patches do you need? I''ll get you some extras so the members of your troop can sew them on their blue jeans. Maybe I can get the same logo on some socks for you too.