Scouts no longer wear the Scout Uniform!

[Troop114DBC]

I am a Scout parent whose son has worn the proper Scout uniform for over five years. Over the past several months, most of the other 25 Scouts have chosen to wear whatever they want at Troop meetings and now Court of Honors. At our recent Court of Honor, over half had their shirts unbuttoned and out. If you or I had been in charge, we may have sent the boys home. I even suggested having the non-uniform Scouts sit with their parents on the other side of the room, and allow uniformed Scouts to sit together on the opposite side of the room. Their Scout pants have now become anything up to and including boxer shorts. As a Scout during the 1960's, we were proud to wear the uniform and wear it correctly. I am embarrassed to have my son in this Troop, and if he were not finishing his Eagle this summer, I would ask him to transfer. I understand the Troop Committee has discussed this issue with the Scoutmaster over and over. The Scoutmaster has spoken to the senior Scouts and they are also frustrated since they are getting nowhere with the Troop. The Scoutmaster has provided the Committee with a number of reasons including some Scouts cannot afford the uniform, some come after sporting events, and even some Scouts will quit if pushed into a uniform. He recently asked the Committee for ideas.

 

For families with financial issues, a Troop "Uniform Exchange" or even eBay may be the solution. For pre-Troop events, Scouts can pack their uniform and change before the meeting. For Scouts who won't wear it, suggest they take up another hobby. If you have faced this issue in your Troop, and had positive results to change it, please forward your constructive suggestions so we may pass this on to our Scoutmaster. If you have criticism and jokes, please forward those on to others who might appreciate them. This Troop has existed for close to 85 years and needs your help.

 

[scoutldr]

First, welcome to the forums. I understand the frustration. So, I take it from the information provided that you are not a registered Scouter in this troop? Not a criticism, but it does limit your ability to influence the troop operations. As a parent, you have the right to voice your opinion and vote with your feet and checkbook. That's about it.

 

You state that " I understand the Troop Committee has discussed this issue with the Scoutmaster over and over. The Scoutmaster has spoken to the senior Scouts and they are also frustrated since they are getting nowhere with the Troop." I presume the adults and senior scouts are "leading by example" and are in complete, proper uniform at every meeting? How often is the Unit Commissioner invited to do a uniform inspection? (Should happen at least annually). Offer a reward to the Patrol and individual scout with the highest score! (As a parent, you could offer to fund a pizza party or special outing for the "honor patrol")

 

As some here will quickly remind us, BSA policy is that "a uniform is not a requirement to be a Scout". But it is taught as one of many methods to deliver the program. When the uniform is worn, it should be worn properly and with respect. As you said, when we were scouts in the 60's, we were proud to wear it correctly. Heck, we even wore ours to school on meeting days. I have a 6th grade class picture with 3 of us in uniform. Times are different now. Good luck!

[Beavah]

Yah, Troop114, I hear yeh. While I'm not adverse to substituting similar pants or to patrol or troop "Class B" shirts, I really hate the motley, disheveled look.

 

But first, we must be honest and realize that's in part an older adult hangup. Dressing up even in the adult world has declined quite a bit in da last 40 years. And we have to admit that there's just better stuff to wear in the field, so we're askin' families to shell out fairly significant $ for very-light-use , indoor clothin'. Not an excuse, but an honest recognition of the lay of the land. To make this work, we old timers have to give a bit, too, at least to start things movin' in the right direction.

 

Instruction: kids need to be taught that lookin' slovenly makes them look stupid, and shows disrespect to others. And they need to be reminded of this quite a bit. If your SM isn't good at this sort of thing - settin' high standards, explainin' 'em well, and holding boys to them, then find an ASM who is.

 

Reward: best way to encourage a persistent habit is to reinforce it some (but not all) of the time. Like gamblin'. Give an occasional reward to a well-uniformed patrol, give more adult attention and kudos to boys who are well uniformed, etc.

 

Consequence: Negative consequence has never seemed to me to be the way to go here. Yeh want to use consequences to curtail bad behavior, they don't really work to encourage good behavior. But excludin' boys from an activity if they're not properly uniformed seems a reasonable thing. No uniform, no award at a COH. Stuff like that.

 

Consider Alternatives: Better to have your unit neat and uniform than it is to buy BSA brand. If your families feel that a substitution of pants is needed (so that the pants they wear to scouts can be worn to school, etc. - a Scout is Thrifty), then substitute intelligently. "Any olive pant," with a recommendation of a particular type from Columbia Outfitters, looks just fine and pretty uniform. Way better than a mix of jeans and sports shorts.

 

At the beginnin' at least, I wouldn't sweat the kids who are showin' up direct from sports practice (or band, or...) and didn't pack their uniform to change into. Be happy that they raced to get to scouts. Yeh don't want to discourage 'em from coming on busy nights. Start by addressin' the sloppiness, and the other stuff will slowly follow.

 

And yah, for sure, if a boy can't afford a uniform, give him one or help him find a job so he can buy his own.

 

B

 

[FScouter]

If you want Scouts to wear the Scout uniform, the troop leadership must set the example and wear it first. The Scoutmaster must wear the uniform, as well as assistant Scoutmasters, senior patrol leader, and patrol leaders. They must wear the complete uniform all the time, every time. If the leaders wear it on a hit or miss basis, or skips parts like hat, neckerchief, belt, socks, or pants, so too will the boys. If the Scoutmaster is making excuses (you mentioned three) thats a pretty good indication his uniform philosophy has already been adopted by the boys.

[Pack378]

Our Scout master required it.... We had inspections once a month at any given day. For the boys who did not wear there uniforms on a regular basics they did not proceed to there next rank. I don't know what the handbook says now but it the first thing it said for each rank was "Show Scout Spirit" and if we did not wear our uniform we did proceed in rank. I am having the same problem with the pack but all my tigers wear there uniform because they are getting used to it a young age. Put the responsibility on the boys not the leaders, let the boys fix the problem. Good Luck!

 

The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country. -Baden Powell

 

Show me a poorly uniformed troop and I'll show you a poorly uniformed leader. -Baden Powell

[dan]

The majority of the troops around here do not wear the complete uniforms, which I do not understand. It seems any old pair of pants are acceptable, orange, camo, whatever, most troops looks bad.

On the other hand while a Philmont last year a venture crew that was there was all dressed in black military looking uniforms, they marched wherever they went, they looked tacky, unscoutlike.

 

Not sure if it will help or not I have been on NYLT staff for 5 years, one of the requirements is that all scouts will be in uniform. There is all which a few scouts without scout pants or shorts and socks. The only time that this is brought up is at uniform inspections every morning. the patrol does not pass inspection. That is the end of it no one on staff says anything else about it for the rest of the day.

We do have a few extra uniforms, and on the third day if we have any that fit, we ask the scouts if they would like to use them. Sometimes the patrols will share extra uniform parts with each other, it is great to see them work together and come together as at team to work through the uniform inspection.

But the entire staff in in uniform setting the example.

Every scout that I have talked to said his scoutmaster said that it was okay not to wear the complete uniform. I feel sorry for the scouts they feel like they where setup for failure.

Use the uniform inspection at every meeting, and use rewards, ribbons for patrol flags, a little candy, praise.

 

I have told many scouts to either wear the uniform correctly or take it off, untucked unbuttoned. I just make sure that when it is time for closing, I am close enough to them to tell them that they cannot salute the flag because they are not wearing the uniform if there choice was to remove it.

 

 

[Hunt]

It seems to me that you can only encourage full uniforming if you have a better reason that the fact that adults don't like sloppy uniforming, and that everybody was proud and happy to wear the uniform back in the 60's (which I don't recall being the case, by the way). If those are the reasons, you will only get compliance by adult enforcement and shaming. You will only really succeed if you can persuade the boy leaders to buy into the IDEA of the uniform.

[John-in-KC]

I really, really appreciate what Beavah said here.

 

I also appreciate the comment from Scoutldr: "I take it from the information provided that you are not a registered Scouter in this troop? Not a criticism, but it does limit your ability to influence the troop operations. As a parent, you have the right to voice your opinion and vote with your feet and checkbook. That's about it."

 

It's easier to influence the situation when an adult is a Scouter, rather than a parent.

 

Then, the Scouter can wear the uniform with pride as well.

 

Trust me, those who know me here have seen my rantings on quality, fit, and finish of uniform items. That said, I saw 1/2 a dozen young men last September allow a group picture of them, in full uniform, to be on their High School home page: It was the Eagle Court of Honor. Every one of them was involved beyond the basic student level! Hundreds of other kids knew these bandsmen, football linemen, and wrestlers They wore their uniforms with pride. Of course, they also wear HS band and athletic uniforms too!

[SR540Beaver]

It starts from the top down and from leading by example. The registered adults in our unit always wear a complete uniform. Our boys have to fill out an application and sign it for any leadership position in the troop. Their parents sign it too to indicate that they will support their son while fulfilling the POR. Part of that application is an agreement to wear a complete uniform and attend regularly. This attitude eventually filters down to every scout in the unit. Wearing the uniform just isn't an issue for our boys, it simply is accepted as what we do in our unit. Everyone wears it as a common practice. I will add, we do require a boy to wear as complete of a uniform as he has to do SM conferences and BOR's. If he shows up without a belt or socks and we know he owns them, no conference or BOR. We have a uniform exchange they can quickly raid or they can borrow from a buddy to get it done. This usually only happens once and they always seem to be properly dressed the next time. Obviously, brand new scouts are given some leeway until they can get fully uniformed.

[local1400]

Not really having a problem with uniforms here. The boys know it is expected and all our leaders are setting the example (minus a few Scout pants). I have a fifth printing, April 1950, Scout handbook which devotes four pages to the Scout uniform. One sentence says " The Scout uniform quietly says that here is a fellow who is ready to be 'helpful to other people at all times'". It also says the uniform stands for your character as a Scout, it stands for friendships, for service, and for the out-of-doors. The current handbook only covers a page and a half on uniforms. Try to get your boys to READ and FOLLOW the handbook. It is not just a place to gather checkoffs. Start with page 12-- "...putting on the uniform does not make a fellow a Scout, but putting on the uniform is a sign to the world that one has taken the Scout obligations and folks expect Scout-like acts from one wearing it." (3rd edition, 1927). Welcome and good luck.

[BrentAllen]

Those SM's and other leaders who tell boys they don't need to wear the complete correct uniform need to read the first few pages of the Insignia Guide.

 

Official Policy

Personal commitment

The uniform is a constant reminder to all Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and adults of their commitment to the ideals and purpose of the Boy Scouts of America. The uniform encourages them to take Scouting seriously because of the investment in uniforms by parents of youths and by adults. The uniform is a way of making visible members' commitment to a belief in God, loyalty to country, and helping others at all times.

The leaders of Scouting - both volunteer and professional - promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions.

 

I've butted heads with our SM over the uniform - he says the Troop has a policy that allows brown, khaki or green pants, shorts or cargo pants. I explained to him that Troops do not have the authority to set their own policy, except for the neckerchief and hat. Nothing has changed, and the sad part is the boys are told "no jeans" and nothing happens when they show up in jeans. They aren't reminded jeans aren't part of the bogus "troop policy" or anything. Same thing goes with electronics on campouts - they aren't allowed, but nothing happens when they pull out their cell phones (for social calls) or ipods. Truly sad to see a total lack of enforcement.

As for cost, check ebay. Scout shorts can be purchased for $15 most of the year.

[Trevorum]

This issue is a prime example of the disconnect between official BSA policy and conflicting statements in BSA literature.

 

On the one hand (as scoutldr has reminded us, and as Ed has pointed out on many occasions) wearing or even owning a uniform is not a requirement for membership or advancement. On the other hand, we have the Uniforming Method, which seeks to promote unit identity and reinforce the Advancement and Leadership Development Methods.

 

There may be some units which rigidly enforce a 100% uniform policy, but I believe the vast majority of units reach their own equilibrium. What is acceptable in one unit will not be tolerated in another. It may not be consistent (nor pretty), but it works. Some would call this "local option"

 

[John-in-KC]

Trev,

 

As you know, I'm more a Uniform Licensee than a bona fide member of the Uniform Police, let alone a Uniform Pharisee.

 

Would I like every young man in Cubbing and Boy Scouting to be correctly attired, all the patches right, and smiling that perfect smile? Yes.

 

Is it a pipe dream? Yes.

 

We've heard the tales of Scoutreach units where the uniforms come from other Troops castoffs from the experienced uniform closet.

 

What do I want? Every Scout neat and clean, and in a common uniform. If the best that can be is blue jeans and a Troop T-shirt, so be it.

 

In the meantime, I'm more frustrated at the parent who initiated this thread. We still don't know if they are/are not a Scouter, and wear the uniform with pride on their own. Boy led does not mean adults do not have to set examples.

[FScouter]

I don't know what a "disconnect" is but it doesn't sound very complimentary to BSA. Wearing the uniform supports the uniform method. So what if it's not "required". That doesn't invalidate the uniform method. Merit badges and rank advancements support the advancement method. But no boy is "required" to earn a badge or to advance. A Scouts' Own service supports the aims of Scouting, but its not required. Summer camp supports the Outdoor method, but its not required. So does that mean Scouting is all disconnected?

 

Yeah, there probably are troops that minimalize or trivialize the uniform and the uniform method. So be it. Troops do lots of stuff that's not Scouting. It's not "local option", though it may be local practice.

[Lisabob]

We went from a pack where uniforming was pretty lax (most boys wore the shirts, scarves, and belts most of the time; almost none wore the pants. Few of the adults even owned a uniform and those who did seldom wore it, or seldom wore it correctly.) to a troop where uniforming is very important. The patrols do uniform inspections almost every week. This includes the adults (Old Goats).

 

I must say, I have been amazed at how quickly the boys (and parents) accept the uniforming ethos upon joining the troop. Within a couple of weeks all of our new cross overs are generally in full uniform. The boys wear it while traveling. Always. If the older boys and the adults "buy in" to the uniform method, it will seem "natural" to most of the younger scouts. And pretty soon, you'll just be another one of those units who actively supports the uniform method. So speaking from experience, yes it can still be done in this day and age!