Eagle Problems....BIG

[Eagle92]

A few things.

1) if he is refusing to give you a copy of the letter he is either A) doesn't have a copy himself, B)will somehow use this against your son, or C) Both.

 

2) If he is already stating that records will be forwarded to the district, it sounds as if the meeting is already against you. I would immediately get a copy of your COUNCIL records ASAP (and pray they are complete as some council do have record problems), AND get all the pocket certificates, blue cards, and any other documentation ready to go. Sounds like you may want to call the DAC at the meeting. Also a copy of the ACP&P ASAP.

 

3)You may want to look at another troop for son #2./ As soemone pointed out we are not getting the full story from both sides. However I have a bad feeling that this troop will make life miserable fro son #2.

 

(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[John-in-KC]

Ms Summer,

 

Hang in there. Offer to buy the District Advancement Chair and the District Director a cup of coffee somewhere, and visit on what you know. Make certain you understand what your son needs to provide to them. The advice about MB cards and rank cards is a good idea at this point. Ask the District Director to bring a copy of your sons ScoutNet advancement record.

 

Ed,

Please go back and review the current Eagle app. The Scoutmasters' approval is required by personal signature, before the pre-EBOR council processing.. Also go back and review ACP&P #33088. The method for providing Eagle reference info is spelled out, to include the option for the Council Advancement Committee to have the Scout deliver shells of reference forms (and mail-in envelopes).

[mdsummer45]

Okay...Thanks folks...Plan of action:

 

1. Calling to obtain my sons records at the council level.

 

2. Complete Eagle Rank Application: Requirements

 

 

#1. Date of Life BOR (6-29-06-signed off by SM in handbook)

 

#2. List of references (done)

 

#3. Merit Badges ( he has all cards in his possession...done, 3-25-09-signed off by troop AC in handbook)

 

#4. Actively Served in POR for period of 6 mos or more ( 01-29-07..SM was even the one who signed off on this in my sons handbook)

 

#5. Eagle Service Project( Done, all necessary signatures on approval and completion pages)

 

#6 SM conference and a written summary of my sons ambitions, life purpose and positions held outside of scouts that demonstrate leadership skills. Include honors and awards. (SM conference--SM is refusing...written summary--currently being completed)

 

Have advised my son to keep the focus of his comments at the committee meeting to the fact that he has successfully completed all requirements listed on the application.

 

Anything else...he has met all the requirements and has committed no crimes...

[mdsummer45]

Oh ..one more thing....Get a copy of the ACP&P 33088 and have my son walk in with the copy in his hand and use the booklet as he talks to support his comment papers with the front of the booklet facing the CC. LOL

[John-in-KC]

No, Ms Summer,

 

YOU keep ACP&P. It is not a youth program item. Him having it may well be throwing nitro-methane on this fire!

 

It's OK for you to have it prominently displayed though.

[mdsummer45]

John in KC..

 

I was half joking about my son displaying the copy. I think it would make my son look like a smart-aleck. However, I fully plan on having a copy in MY hand. thanks again

[shortridge]

"YOU keep ACP&P. It is not a youth program item."

 

I'm not sure I understand this comment, except in the context of not wanting the Scout to look like a lawyered-up smart-aleck.

 

Anyone can go to Scoutstuff.org and buy a copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, no questions asked. A program resource is a program resource. There's nothing wrong with an SPL having a copy of ACP&P, a PL reading his copy of an SM Handbook, or a crew president possessing a copy of the Venturing Leader Manual. All can add to the youth's understanding of the leadership and administration of the program.

[John-in-KC]

Shortridge,

 

in the context of not wanting the Scout to look like a lawyered-up smart-aleck.

 

Precisely.

 

This Troop, from what we read, already has an animus against this Scout. Fuel on the fire just won't be helpful to his case.

 

[mdsummer45]

I need some help interpreting something from the ACP&P #33088(I now am a proud owner of this booklet) pg 31 The 12 Steps from Life to Eagle...item #1 states:

 

In order to advance to the rank of Eagle, while a Life scout, a candidate must complete all the requirements of:

 

active tenure

scout spirit

any remaining merit badges

positions of responsibility

planning, developing,& providing leadership

to others in a service project

the SM conference

 

Okay here is my question...are they referring to the requirements that are listed in the Boy Scout Handbook or the requirements that are listed on the Eagle Scout Rank Application?

 

In his Boy Scout Handbook all of the requirements are signed off except scout spirit and SM conference...these are the ones the SM is refusing to sign off on the ones in the book. The Eagle Scout Rank Application only requires a date for the SM conference and for 'demonstrates scout spirit in your everyday life' the application requires an outside of scouts list of people. Does my son NEED to have the SM sign off on the scout spirit section located in the book...the ACP&P does not make it clear...or at least it is not clear to me.

 

[NealOnWheels]

When it boils right down to it the application is what is important.

 

Yes there is a difference in the requirements from the handbook and the application. That has always bothered me. You need to do what the application says.

 

Since there is a dispute between your son and the Scoutmaster about Scout Spirit I would leave that date blank for now. You can add the date if and when the Scoutmaster signs the application.

[evmori]

The Scoutmasters' approval is required by personal signature, before the pre-EBOR council processing..

 

John,

 

I never posted the SM signature wasn't required!

 

Also go back and review ACP&P #33088. The method for providing Eagle reference info is spelled out, to include the option for the Council Advancement Committee to have the Scout deliver shells of reference forms (and mail-in envelopes).

 

The key word phrase is "option for the Council Advancement Committee" not the unit or District. And the key word in the phrase is "option" which does not mean required.

 

Ed(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Vicki]

Ed, I think John put "approval" in bold because you wrote, "a SM Conference isn't a pass/fail requirement. All the Scout has to do is participate," It's not that a signature isn't required, it's that approval IS required, which would seem to indicate that it is indeed a pass/fail requirement and a scout needs to do more than just participate with the SM, the SM must approve him.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[John-in-KC]

V,

 

YES. EXACTLY. The Scoutmaster has an "I approve" in Eagle Candidacy. It's not just a participation requirement. Thanks for watching my back

 

Ed,

 

Please go back and review ACP&P. The Council Advancement Committee has some discretion in how they implement National policy. One of them is how a Life Scout makes his final approach to Eagle. The Council can, and in this case does, apparently set a policy that the Scout (or unit) will deliver a shell to the reference, and the reference fills it out and returns it.

 

The key point I read is that the Scout is not supposed to handle the references after they are completed.

[mdsummer45]

Hey Everyone

 

I'm trying to get a consensus here: does it really matter if the SM refuses to sign requirements in the Boy Scout Handbook, are those signatures in those little boxes important OR should we just be focusing on the SM refusing to sign the Eagle rank application. I'm attempting to guide my son in his preparation of the statement he will be presenting to the troop committee. I want to know if he should be stating that he is requesting the signature of the SM for requirements #2(scout spirit) and #6 (SM conference) in the Boy Scout Handbook OR should he just state that he is requesting that the SM conduct a SM conference (requirement #6) and request the SM signature under Unit Approval on the Eagle Rank application..Stated another way..does the handbook have to have all the boxes signed/dated BEFORE the application can be filled out?

 

[John-in-KC]

I apologize Ms Summer...

 

In a perfect world, your son's SM approval would have been a given. Over 95% of all Eagle candidates never have a problem.

 

Your son is in the 5%.

 

What Ed and I and Vicki are debating here, and it's a distraction to you and your son, is that the Eagle SM conference, unlike other conferences, has a P/F significance: The SM approves the candidacy by personally signing the app.

 

We're past that phase with your son. The SM won't. We've been advising you on the next steps, so we can try to get him to an EBOR. Your son's EBOR will almost certainly be the consequence of an appeal process. Most likely, the District Advancement Chair will have another SM give him his conference. Most likely, the District Advancement Chair will have three of his most experienced people give the EBOR.

 

Let's keep you, and him, focused on the tasks at hand