BadenP Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 mdsummer45 You have been given some great advice already and I concur, go to your district people ASAP even before the committee meeting, maybe your DAC can also attend. If this still fails get your DE involved. When I was a DE I had a similiar incident occur in my district, so I, the District Chair, and District Commissioner met the scoutmaster over coffee and discussed the problems on both ends and resolved the issues. The boy had his conference, EBOR, and was able to attend the World Jamboree as an Eagle scout. Bottom line, exhaust all your support people first then bring in the big guns. Sometimes there are scouters out there that need to be reminded that we are in this for the boys first and formost, not for our own petty power trips and glorification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsummer45 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 I'm sorry but I am not sure what some of the abbreviations stand for... DE? And I am quickly learning the "chain of command". As I posted earlier (I think) this SM holds 3 district positions beside his role as SM so all of this people may be his "buddies". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicki Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 DE = District Executive. Vicki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Wow. Let's take a deep breath here, Ms Summer. There's some time, let's use it wisely. 1) Have your son do exactly what Beavah says. Apply to the SM for his SM conference. Verbally, if necessary in writing. Build the audit trail. 2) IF the Scoutmaster refuses to give him the SM Conference, we've hit the first trigger for an appeal of advancement denied. Have your son ask the Scoutmaster to state the reasons, and then deliver them in writing. Since I'm 1100 miles west of my copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe when the SM denies a conference, he must state his reasons. 3) Next step is for Scout to inform the CC of Eagle SM Conference denied, and ask the Committee to revisit that situation. If they do, and someone else at unit level gives the conference, and we move to the EBOR, problem solved. IF THEY DO NOT REVISIT, then your son asks them for their reasons, in writing. 4) Now you're ready: Contact these people, in order: - District Executive (DE) : Obtain the phone number of the DISTRICT ADVANCEMENT CHAIRMAN (DAC). - Have your son call the DAC. Ask to visit with him/her at his earliest convenience. State very clearly he has been denied an Eagle Scoutmaster Conference. Have him state you will be at the meeting, but let him do the talking. - At the visit, bring: His advancement record to this date, his Eagle Leadership Service Project workbook, and his notes (or correspondence from the SM/CC on reasons for denial), and his Eagle application completed save SM/Committee signatures. Make sure his references are ready. 5) Have your son make sure his uniform looks great. 6) At the meeting, let your son do the talking, up to the very end. Most DACs I know will understand an appeal is starting. They'll very clearly say that. If yours does not, then at the end, the words you or Dad say are: On behalf of our son, we appeal his Eagle denied. Finally, allow a moment of bluntness: Be prepared for bad feelings from the Troop, and perhaps to lose some adult friendships. An Eagle appeal is most often very divisive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsummer45 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 After looking on the district website it appears that our district does not have a DE. They list District Chairman, District Commissioner, District Director (who I have called and left a message for him to call me) and Advancement Chairman.(there are other but those are the one listed at the top of this list so I guess they are the biggies). They all have email address (except for one) should I call them all or send out one email to all of them explain the situation? I do not want to appear stupid...but ...I just do not know the appropriate course of action...I am in uncharted water. One more "dumb" question..should I call/email them or should that come from my son...I think he is going to be nervous doing this...he is too trusting and he keeps thinking that things will be different at this special committee meeting. I think that trust is a combination of youthful ignorance and fear. :^) At this point I don't trust any of these troop committee members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsummer45 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 John in KC clarification please...."CC"=? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Although I'd have thought that the DE would be listed on most district web pages, it is possible he or she is not and that only volunteer positions are listed (the DE is a paid professional position, not a volunteer position). It is also possible your district lacks a DE. Far more likely, though, is that they just aren't on the website. One quick way to find out is to call your council office tomorrow morning and ask for the name and contact info for the DE for people in your town. If they tell you there is not one, then ask who the PROFESSIONAL, PAID individual is who is in charge of your area. It might be a Field Director or District Director, if you really don't have a DE for some reason, but there will be someone. About this SM holding 3 district positions, which you've mentioned a few times now... That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Many times district positions are filled by "any warm body." Not good, but common. It does NOT mean that all the other district folks are his buddies. Additionally, the three positions you listed (I think that was in your posts on the site referenced by NealonWheels) are not "power" positions in this matter. If the SM were also the district advancement chair there would be cause for worries there - as it is, I think you can stop worrying about this particular angle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 "CC" stands for Committee Chairman/woman. In my neck of the woods, a District Director is basically a District Executive with a fancier title - perhaps they're higher up on the paygrade, maybe they supervise entry-level DEs, I'm not sure. But that would be the right person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsummer45 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 My son just composed an email to send to his SM. I am too close to this to be objective. How does this sound to you..... *************************************************************** Mr SM Thank you for talking with me Monday night regarding scheduling an eagle scout master conference with you. It is my understanding that at this time you continue to feel that you can not sign off on the following Eagle Scout Rank Requirements for me: #2 Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life #6 Take part in a scoutmaster conference At this time I am requesting a written statement from you listing the reasons that you feel that you can not sign off on these requirements. You also suggested that I contact the Troop Committee Chairman, Mr X, and request a special troop committee meeting so that I can present myself to them. I have taken your advice and I have emailed Mr X requesting such a meeting. I will be sending a copy of this email to Mr Y--Troop Advancement Chairman; Mr Z--Troop Eagle Advisor and Mr W Troop Committee Chairman. I look forward to your reply. Thank you ****************************************** Any comments or suggestions before he sends this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nike Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Good e-mail. Very neutral and polite. Send it ASAP. As for myself, I have to wonder if this is the hill your son's SM really wants to die on and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infoscouter Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 A District Director is a paid council employee with responsibility for a larger district. S/he will sometimes supervise a District Executive in a very large district. In this case since the Advancement Chair is listed, I would go straight to that person, rather than approach the District Director (who really shouldn't be involved in this issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'm getting the impression that the SM wouldn't care if this were escalated or not. He clearly doesn't want to help this scout advance and he is done with it. He probably knows that the appeal process will be engaged, probably is expecting it. I just can't imagine your son has stayed in this unit for this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealOnWheels Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 GernBlansten wrote: "I just can't imagine your son has stayed in this unit for this long. " Well in the other forumn she mentions she has a younger son in this troop as well. Hopefully son #2 finds a differnt unit and does not wait until he is 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Yes. Please, if you have other options for scouting in your area, find another troop for your younger son. What you describe sounds like a bunch of adult bullies to me - not something to subject your kids to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I would recommend buying for yourself a copy of "Advancement Committee Guidelines and Procedures" from the Scout Shop. You need to be familiar with the policies. It's been suggested before, but specifically the policies for denying an advancement require that any denial of advancement by a unit leader (either failing to pass a requirement or conduct a conference), unit committee or Board of Review requires three things: 1) a letter, in writing, giving the reasons for denial 2) a plan of action which will allow the Scout to advance in a timely manner, and 3) an explaination of the procedures for appealing the decision to the next level. If your son gets any guff about getting any of this material or about meeting with the troop committee, take it directly to the District Advancement Chairman. And let your son know that there are a lot of Scouters out there who think he is being given a raw deal. This isn't how Scouts behave. Tenacity is one of the main traits of an Eagle Scout. Tell him to hang in there and don't let the bums get him down. It will pay off in the end and he will prevail. Oh, and find another troop for his brother. I would guess his career isn't going to be too easy after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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