Eagle Problems....BIG

[nolesrule]

Guess I'm not the only one here familiar with B5.

[Beavah]

Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless, and totally consistent with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon.

 

Yah, it would be fun if one of the BSA's local entities renamed itself "The Grey Council", eh? Or maybe that's da council ASM 411 is from?

 

B

 

[nolesrule]

The only things more mysterious than the Grey Council are Vorlons and the Order of the Arrow (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

[CalicoPenn]

I suspect that the DAC had his ducks in a row a few weeks back. As I recall, there was a not-so-cryptic mumbled comment by the DCA that was relayed to us - said something like "I'll have to deal with this appeal" and then coupled with other comments from other district sources that they were aware this particular SM and Committee just might be problematic. Leads me to also suspect that the folks at the District level are well aware of that third side to the story.

 

mdsummer - I hate to use the words slam dunk, but as an Eagle Scout who received his rank after appealing, this one sounds like a slam dunk to me. As long as your son keeps the same calm, collected head you've relayed to us here, we'll soon be welcoming a new Eagle to the flock.

 

 

[mdsummer45]

Thank you CalicoPenn

 

My son is not viewing this as a slam dunk by any means (nor am I)...I wish I had the time to relay the content of the conversations I have had with the DD....he is quite concerned by the tone and content of the letters the SM has sent my son and presented at the special committee meeting. The DD is concerned as to how the SM views his position as SM. It is so difficult to present everything on this forum. Both my son and I were shocked that the DAC wanted nothing more that the cards and rank verification and LORs...obviously there has been much talk behind the scenes about this ...There are so many stories I could tell and maybe one day I will relay some to you all about tahis troop...Also just want you all to know that Son #2 came home last night and told me that he was running for ASPL....WHAT!?!?!?...all of his friends wanted him to run. Only one other scout is running so Son#2 says I guess this will be a good test as to how the Troop leaders are going to treat him. He knows the potential hornets nest he may be entering....I give the kid alot of credit.

[ASM915]

Asm411,

B5. Ah yes. To bad they put it to cable. Talk about deep underlying storylines. Every scout should have Sinclair as a rolemodel. Watch out for the Shadows at summercamp.

 

Summer, sorry for the minor hijack.

[Vicki]

I really enjoyed B5. Those scheming, partying Centauri. Dalenn's transformation. Billy Mumy. Great plot lines, as noted. Three edged sword indeed - talk about some piercing power! That would leave a mark.

 

Hadn't thought about that one in awhile. Thanks!

 

Hijacks happen:

[asm 411]

Beavah,

 

LOL - yep I am from the BSA Grey Council. I stand between the candle and the light. That is great. I am headed off the Stadri to get a custom council strip made up ... still LOL

[nolesrule]

YKYBWTMB5AHBISTL (You Know You've Been Watching Too Much Babylon 5 And Have Been In Scouts Too Long) when you start thinking about how the Drazi would issue special purple or green ghosted CSPs at random to all their members every 5 years and that they are such a restricted item they are worth fighting over.

[ASM915]

Summer,

It sounds like you and your son have things well in hand. It should be smooth sailing from here on in. Good luck to him. Been there and through the out to get you committee member (CM). Thank God it was just one CM, and didn't go to far. At least your son has a valid reason for an appeal, unlike others who know if they yell loud enough, National will give in. His Eagle won't be cheapened because of the appeal.

 

B,

Maybe this troops leadership has had a history of running ripshod over the boys without beig questioned. Mabe they're not use to a scout holding his ground, and questioning how they have been handling and running things in the past. If that's the case, it doesn't matter how diplomatic the scout is, they'll round up the wagons to hold onto what they have, and use any means to discredit the questioner.

 

Hijack On.

411,

Standing between the candle and the light, I use to stand between the smudgepots and the dark walls of the Manatoc quarry. I want my GTC Grey Council CPS patch. LOL.

Hijack Off.

 

[HICO_Eagle]

Ah, you seek meaning. Then listen to the music, not the song.

[Beavah]

Maybe this troops leadership has had a history of running ripshod over the boys without beig questioned. Mabe they're not use to a scout holding his ground, and questioning how they have been handling and running things in the past. If that's the case, it doesn't matter how diplomatic the scout is, they'll round up the wagons to hold onto what they have, and use any means to discredit the questioner.

 

Yah, yah, all Centauri are evil beasts hell-bent on oppressing the Narn masses, eh? Just like all Narn are uncivilized terrorists bent on eating Centauri children.

 

That's my point, eh? If yeh buy into da emotion of one side or the other yeh have to imagine that the motivation of the other side is somehow evil. "Use any means to discredit" "Run roughshod over boys" etc. - that sort of thing just ain't reality when you're talking about volunteers in a kids' program. Yeh have to imagine this SM as somebody we should boot from the program. Yet he's got the support of his fellow troop scouters, the support of da majority of troop parents, and is well enough respected at the district to hold several positions. Just doesn't fit.

 

Now, I agree with yeh when yeh say that some adults aren't great at dealing with bright lads who hold their ground (aka stubborn lads who talk back to adults). They taught their own kids differently, eh? One person's lad standing firm is another's wise-a** arguin' balls and strikes with the ump. Just depends a bit on your family's values and culture. Some families value quiet "obedience" and respect for adults more than others, eh? Especially these days it seems.

 

Of course, if I had given da SM lip about the ASM usin' a four-letter word when I was in trouble for somethin' else, Momma Beavah would have hauled me out by my ear, washed my mouth out with soap, and read me the riot act about how she would have used a lot more on me than a four-letter word if I had talked back to her like I did to that ASM. She was never too impressed with my youthful legal argumentation. We kids all learned that it we were responsible for our behavior, and da behaviors of other kids or adults wasn't an excuse.

 

So me, I kinda like dealin' with these rascals who try to make arguments. But there are a lot of adults who don't think too highly of da lip, eh? Even some who react in ways that aren't helpful. I reckon that's what's up here.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[ASM915]

B,

Youthful legal argumentation eh. Look where it's got you now. Bet she's proud now, even if she wasn't happy about it then.

 

Most teens no matter how diplomatic they try to be, would probably come off as wisea**es. But that isn't every teen. Boys will be boys. They will be ornery, sometimes hard to control, and loud. Not to side with Summer's son, but does all the above still warrant an adult leader popping off expletives that we would be calling the boys out for using, and accusing them of being unscoutlike in their behavior. By the way, where was the ASM if his scouts were being so noisy as to keep another campsite awake? I sure he wasn't sleeping to well himself, if this was really the situation. If he was, what is his secret? I want to know so I can sleep so well too. LOL

 

Summer,

Devil's Advocate here for B's sake, nothing personal.

Maybe Summer's son is a loudmouthed obnoxious lazya**, and comes off as the proverbial smarta**, and doesn't care how he comes off or what he says in front of the adults. Maybe the ASM felt he had every reason to act like he did, and to call the SM about this perceived situation and scout. Does that still justify an ASM for popping off expletives at the scouts at any time, 3:00PM or 3:00AM?

 

In this apparent situation, even if Summer's son had planned on approaching the SM about the language, the SM beat him to calling a meeting about the situation in question. So, now it doesn't matter when the boy approaches the SM about the ASM's behavior, the boy will always be perceived as a vengeful little smarta** brat trying to get back at the SM and ASM for being called out in the first place, instead of a scout bringing a true concern to the SM's attention? B?

 

B,

Don't tell me that because of the number of years working in the system, and the high percentage of teens that are smart-mouthed little wisea**es that do appearing before the Judge and you, that you have hardened, and now receive all teens, scouts and others as smart mouthed wisea**es??? LOL.

 

Now then again, maybe the scout should have confided in another adult leader involved in the troop, about his concerns over the ASM's reaction to the situation, who can then approach a SM about such situations.

So much for teaching responsibility and leadership, when a scout has to use a mediary to approach SM's about adult leadership concerns, or suggestions, because he might be taken as a wisea**.

[Beavah]

Yah, ASM915, I'm just doin' my thing of tampin' down the one-sided emotional stuff, eh? Like I said, where this particular case falls out would depend on facts not in evidence. I reckon there's failures on both sides.

 

I think if there's really a concern about an adult's behavior or use of language, yeh don't bring that up when the issue on the table is your own behavior. Momma Beavah taught me that . Arguin' that other people run stop signs isn't material to you running a red light, eh? Nor is da arresting officer calling you an idiot for runnin' the red light, though he should perhaps be more polite.

 

Lets face it, if there were real issues with this ASM's behavior in general, the lad has had seven years to bring 'em up. I reckon he was bein' a kid and tryin' to throw somethin' back in da face of the adults only because he was on the hot seat. And that message was heard!

 

Of course, if there were real issues with the lad's behavior, the adults have had a few years to bring 'em up too, eh? We don't know that they didn't, of course, only that the boy didn't learn what he perhaps should have. Like I said, adults who weren't argumentative youths themselves tend to get pretty darn annoyed with argumentative youths. They don't always have clean hands.

 

So we're back to the beginnin' of havin' to trust the locals to sort it out. Yah, and that probably means some good scouters are slightly disappointed when us bureaucrats who don't really deal with kids anymore take the easy route to a settlement and just grant the badge.

 

Beavah

 

[CalicoPenn]

Speaking of facts in evidence - allow me to bring another fact into evidence.

 

This lad completed the leadership project for Eagle Scout. In order to do so, he had to get approval from his Scout Leaders to even start a project.

 

It's highly illogical to approve an Eagle project if the unit is then going to deny both a Scoutmaster's Conference and a Board of Review for the Eagle Rank based on the grounds laid out by this Scoutmaster. If these issues were really that serious to derail a Scout from earning the Eagle Scout rank, it should have derailed it before the project was approved.

 

I know folks want to defend this Scoutmaster and Troop Committe because we've not heard their side of the story. I have to say that as far as I'm concerned, their earlier actions of approving an Eagle Scout project speaks volumes about their sudden turnaround and I don't really need to hear their side of the story to know that they really screwed the pooch on this one.

 

As an aside, I've known many Scouters who have held multiple positions at the district level that weren't necessarily respected. Tolerated perhaps, but not respected. It's a reality when you have positions to fill and need bodies to fill them. I get the feeling that this might be the case of this Scoutmaster if some of the comments that were relayed as coming from other members of this District are accurate.