NealOnWheels Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 "The award is just a patch" I think there will be a lot of people here that would disagree. If the Scout truly beleives he earned Eagle and is willing to fight for it who cares what others beleive. It shows more character to me than giving up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsummer45 Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 TwoCubDad As I said my profession requires me to pay attention to detail....potentially serious consequences if I don't. Lisabob Only two left and he will still value their friendship even though they did not support him. The other committee members who were in attendance do not even come to the troop meetings or go on any of the outings, their sons have been gone for at least a year or two and in some cases 4+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NealOnWheels Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Ms Summer, Talk to your District Advancement Chairman on what wording would be appropriate. After all it is he that you are writing to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Good morning, Ms Summer, Please do keep us informed of how things happen in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsummer45 Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Good thing I can laugh at myself....yesterday I was so worried about the proper wording of my sons appeal....my son just got off the phone with the DAC and was told that all the DAC had everything he needed except a copy of the merit badge blue cards(front and back) proof of advancement for 1st class, star and life and the remaining LORs. The DAC said that as soon as he had all of those things he would call my son and schedule a Board of Review at the District level. WOW so easy. My question is this a BOR to recommend a EBOR? Or is this the EBOR? Not clear on that ..any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 if the DAC is following procedures, it's the actual EBOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljnrsu Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 As Eagle 92 said if DAC is following procedures, it will be your sons EBOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Sounds like the council wants to get this over as quick as possible and get it behind them. Sad thing, and don't take this personally, but the ease the council is moving, it really cheapens the rank IMHO. We conscientious scouters really try to put the youth through the program and make it worth something special. We test and retest, most of us don't just give out merit badges or PORs. We try to establish some rigor. But if it goes to council for an appeal, it seems like a quick, automatic pass. All the work we do becomes cheap because there's an easy out. Now, please don't think your son is getting an easy out, because that is not what I think in his case, he's actually shown a lot of maturity to go the distance here. But think of a really rotten kid who a well meaning troop just doesn't think is Eagle material. Same result. He's gonna get it with little resistance at the council level. Glad things are working out for your son though. We should have an e-ECOH here on the forum! I'll bring punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Gern, We don't know the rest of the story here ... and we don't need to know. If I knew my DAC at all, if I knew an appeal was on its way to him, he'd be working the Commish service, the COR, other SMs, folks who know this troop. He may be wanting to make a point in the District. I'd hope this DAC, knowing well something was coming, has been doing his homework. Ms Summer, A quiet comment for your son ... nobody likes a wise ###. I hope he's seen that mature, friendly conduct will get him an awful long way in this life ... but pushing the envelope will catch up with him. Frankly, I'd rather have a good name than a gazillion bucks. I'm sad it had to happen this way. I'm glad we are at endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Great news Ms Summer! Just wondering, when you have your sons Eagle Court of Honor, are you inviting anyone from the Troop leadership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I won't jinx it by congratulating you too soon, Ms. Summer, however it seems we are on the path now. Another thing to start considering, should the EBOR be successful...who will conduct the ECOH and present the award? I think it's a sure bet that Mr. SM and Mr. CC will not be present, even if cordially invited. But first things first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilLup Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 With appropriate respect to Gern and others, I sometimes think that if some of the members of this forum were given gold bars, they'd complain that they were too heavy. We have for 15 web pages been appropriately complaining that the Troop is stone walling and being contrary to the principles of Scouting. Now the District Advancement Chairman is moving expeditiously and we're complaining that he is making thing too easy. How does one win? I suspect that if the DAC is on the ball, and it sounds as if he is, he already has plenty of information on the situation, has formed a reasonable opinion and now wants to move forward with all deliberate speed. Training on Eagle Boards of Review suggest that they're supposed to take a half-hour. They not supposed to be an inquisition or exhaustive review of everything the Scout has done. I suspect that the DAC is already taking into account what the Scout has gone through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcnphkr Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Before everyone breaks out the champagne. Just because the DAC is doing his job in empaneling an EBOR does not mean that the scout has passed it. The DAC will have the information from the troop as well and likely those issues will be raised at the EBOR. The board is not limited to only considering the references the scout provides, and will likely include the opinion of the SM in their deliberations. Now the board members will likely not have an emotional stake in the situation like the SM appears to have, nor the political stakes the unit committee has. Therefore they are less likely to want to fight a losing battle. So unless there is much more than we are aware of then they will likely pass the scout. But that is by no means a given. That the SM has dug in this much and the committee has backed him despite the likelihood of being overturned, tells me that we do not have the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 We have for 15 web pages been appropriately complaining that the Troop is stone walling and being contrary to the principles of Scouting. Now the District Advancement Chairman is moving expeditiously and we're complaining that he is making thing too easy. How does one win? Yah, NeilLup, I reckon we're just seein' two different sides of da coin. The 15 pages complainin' about the troop was in a large part jumpin' on mom's emotional bandwagon. I have the dubious pleasure of mediatin' a lot of disputes, eh? One of the things yeh get used to in that role is immediately subtracting out da hearsay and emotional stuff to understand the underlyin' facts. There's a reason why hearsay is inadmissible, eh? It's notoriously unreliable. Then yeh have to imagine the motives of da other side. In this case, when yeh dismiss all da hearsay and emotion, and discount silly notions about the motivation of others (like all the adults in this troop are out to get this boy after spendin' their time with him for seven years), yeh end up with a borderline case that could go either way dependin' on facts not in evidence. So let's imagine it from the troop's point of view. You have a lad who has had a number of behavior issues over the years. Never anything that rises to the level of requiring suspension or expulsion, but a lot of stuff that has gotten under people's skin. He's a bright lad, so maybe he's an instigator who is usually smart enough not to get caught doin' anything serious or to make up plausible excuses. He's got a mouth on him and cops a lot of "attitude" with adults. His parents are AWOL. Dad came on one campout and hasn't been heard from since, mom's not a volunteer either. Kid faded out as a junior and the troop was fine with that, then came back wanting Eagle. When he came back, there was more of the instigator-type stuff, eh? He's the old boy in the tent when other campers are disturbed. When confronted, he blames it on the younger boys and cops a load of "attitude" with the ASM. So much so that the ASM gets on the horn immediately with the SM and says "this is serious, it has to be dealt with." At the meeting with the SM, the kid cops more attitude and goes after the ASM for swearing. Classic teenage behavior, eh? The SM does his duty, and a full six months before the boy's 18th birthday tells him in writing that he can't support his Eagle application because of Scout Spirit/Behavior issues. Boy wants to argue it but the adults really aren't into more argument and lip from this boy. SM again does his duty and lets the lad know his avenues of appeal. The troop committee, consisting of parents of older boys who remember this kid bein' a pain when they were out and remember their boys talking about him get confronted with the SM and multiple ASM's testimony, a raft of old events but also some more recent events which show the boy hasn't really changed. Mom & boy demand an immediate written reply even though the CC is tryin' to deal with his dying mother, then get annoyed when he sends da letter at 11pm. On top if it all, his Facebook contains stuff that would be considered cyberbullying and the troop is serious about that kind of thing. Yeh could imagine that if the SM posted a thread with his side, many of the same folks who are thinking the SM is a putz based on mom's view would be advocating for kicking the kid out on the cyberbullying stuff alone. My guess is that the straight line here is that this lad is a bright but argumentative sort, and that these adults aren't very good at dealin' with that type of kid. He gets under their skin and where they should react they overreact. Troop should probably have dealt with it better by not advancing him to Star or Life, but we all want to give lads the benefit of the doubt, especially when they're younger. We all know that in the end, the lad will be given Eagle by somebody. Maybe that will cost us a troop or at least some other boys. If we take Terry Lawson's old line, it ain't worth da argument and best just to give the boy an Eagle and send him on his way. That's the expedient and natural settlement, eh? At least when we don't think about the other impacts. Whether it's really da right thing to do is left as an exercise for the district volunteers. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm 411 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 "Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth." - Ambassador Kosh from Babylon 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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