Eagle Problems....BIG

[Twocubdad]

Don't get caught up in the details. Print a copy of the CC's email and write "I appeal" across the bottom and send it to to the DAC. That's sufficient to get the process going. How you want to spiff it up from there is gravy.

 

The DAC will be in touch with you and will let you know what he needs. At this point, it is the DAC's job to investigate the facts and report them to the committee. Let the DAC drive the process. No sense going to a lot of trouble for stuff he doesn't ask for. I would, however, make certain that you have the originals of everything back from the troop. In our council, the district chairman acts as the investigator and the council advancement committee makes the decision. There's not two separate levels of appeal, just one.

 

I know the folks here are trying to be helpful, but there's only so much bull an 18-year-old is going to put up with (which thus far is a whole lot more than I would have tolerated). He's jumped through enough hoops already. We don't need to be creating more.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Twocubdad]

Sorry, something gummed up here. I don't know what.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Twocubdad]

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[mdsummer45]

okay... appealing the decision not to endorse his application for Eagle by refusing to sign the Eagle application. (Boxes in the Handbook do not matter.) He is asking for a review of his Eagle requirements and approval of those requirements at the District level and he is also requesting an EBOR should the District committee find in favor of his appeal. Since he will be turn 18 in 4 weeks he is also requesting any extension of time past his 18th birthday that may be required in order to complete the appeal process at the District level.

 

Correct?

[ljnrsu]

Sorry for any confusion my response created. My response is based or biased upon how my District Advancement Committee would handle this situation.

Again you are appealing the denial of a Scoutmaster Conference. Your son needs the SMC to fulfill Requirement #6. Their approval signatures are moot at this point. Your appeal has effectively removed the Troop Leadership from the process. By requesting an EBOR upon successful completion of the SMC you are in effect getting the necessary signatures. The District Advancement Committee can sign the application, though they may ask the Troop to reconsider signing.

 

[mdsummer45]

okay... appealing the decision not to conduct a SM conference as stated in Requirement 6 on the Eagle application. (Boxes in handbook still do not matter) He is asking for a SM conference at the District level and a review of his Eagle requirements and approval of those requirements at the District level and he is also requesting an EBOR should the District committee find in favor of his appeal. Since he will be turn 18 in 4 weeks he is also requesting any extension of time past his 18th birthday that may be required in order to complete the appeal process at the District level.

 

 

Yes?

 

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my profession requires me to be very attentive to details(could ya tell) that is why my brain works the way it does..details, details, details....lol

[John-in-KC]

I can say these sentences in eight words:

 

Beavah's post nailed the question. Use his words.

[mdsummer45]

 

hum..eight words?

 

 

I am appealing the decision of my SM and the troop committee not to recommend me for an Eagle BOR by refusing to sign my Eagle Rank application.

 

 

That simple?

 

 

[Beavah]

Nah, the SM conference is irrelevant. You're appealing a troop decision not to recommend a lad for Eagle, period. Doesn't matter why they didn't recommend him, that's a matter for the appeal.

 

You do not need, and should not pursue an extension of time. That's an entirely different beast, with different procedures, which must be determined by National. Yeh don't want to go there, it will delay and confuse things. An extension of time is only required if a lad cannot fulfill the requirements by his 18th birthday. In this case, yeh believe he has already fulfilled the requirements. A Board of Review can be conducted 3 months after his 18th birthday with absolutely no need for any special permission, and appeals can continue after that, so you are not in a time crunch.

 

It's very simple. The troop is not recommending your son for the rank of Eagle Scout. Your son is asking that the district review that decision and afford him a Board of Review and, if the district so determines, the rank of Eagle Scout. That's it.

 

Now, since you've got some time, it is worth a pause for your son to think about things. Does he really want to go this route? It might be that his answer, on reflection, is "no." Particularly if he cares a lot about the troop and his relationships in it. Gettin' an Eagle Award presented by the council instead of by his troop can be a letdown. As has been discussed in other threads, folks at da more remote levels take a more bureaucratic view of these things and tend to err well to the side of avoiding conflict and favorin' the boy. That might be viewed as a "fake" or "low standards" Eagle by folks your son really cares about. Or not. He might want to pursue it to demonstrate his character to these folks. Either way, it's worth considerin' more than the wording of letters. The award is just a patch. Relationships and what he's learned are what he really takes away from Scouting.

 

Beavah

 

[mdsummer45]

Oh one more thing....when this is all over and we are planning my sons Court of Honor. I am going to need all of your addresses as you have been the true leaders in this process. You are the ones who I wish could present him with his Eagle advancement. Again, I thank you.

[mdsummer45]

B

He plans to follow this though to the end. I don't feel that he can control how other people view his Eagle award, that is their decision to have what ever view they chose. He has done everything the rank requires that has been in his control. The others are subjective and left up to interpretation. I guess that is why there is an appeals process. His friends will still be his friends and I guess we shall see what type of character they demonstrate. If they judge his Eagle to be of lesser quality, doesn't that speak to their character..and will they be demonstrating Scout Spirit????

[Beavah]

Yah, my last post doubled with your previous post, mdsummer. It looks a might confusin' now. Proper answer was "yes, it's that simple."

 

If they judge his Eagle to be of lesser quality, doesn't that speak to their character.

 

Of course it does. Both positive and negative. Let the boy come home and consider things and think about it, though. What he plans and what he ultimately decides can be different, eh? And he deserves your love and support either way.

 

B

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[mdsummer45]

B

 

We are behind him 110% no matter what he decides. As I have said in earlier posts. If it was my decision he would have quit scouts along time ago. I know my son and I have a pretty good idea of what he is going to want to do. That is the reason I am gathering information so that he can follow the proper procedure.

[Lisabob]

"That might be viewed as a "fake" or "low standards" Eagle by folks your son really cares about. Or not. "

 

On this, I don't think I can agree with Beavah. Anyone who would view a boy's Eagle this way needs their head examined.

 

I would say, though, that there must be SOME adults in the troop who have given freely of their time and knowledge over the years, or else your son would never have made it to this point. Even some of those same adults who now back the SM's decision. Don't let your son lose sight of all that he has learned from these folks along the way.

 

By the way, I spent the afternoon at an Eagle CoH today. Most of the troop including past SM's and a LOT of community folks were there. It was as much a celebration of the community's investment and involvement in that boy's life, as it was a recognition of the boy himself and his accomplishments. I thought that was fitting.

[Twocubdad]

This isn't that legalistic. They're not going to approve his application but then deny him a board of review because it's past his birthday. I know you've been burned and feel like you have to do all you can to protect your son's interest (and maybe a bit anal by nature), but surely, someone in your council has a little common sense.

 

Your son has completed the requirements and turned in his application prior to his birthday. He's done his job. How long it take the troop committee, district, council and national to do their jobs shouldn't be a concern. I think you will find that at this point your son is going to be given the benefit of every doubt. Okay, I don't know anything about you council, but based on some of the appeals from our area I can tell you that is the case at national. If you've read some of the other threads here on advancement and particularly how national looks at some of these issues, you know that many of us, myself included, aren't especially thrilled with their point of view. But in your case I think you'll find them very accommodating.

 

I've written here before that you son WILL BE awarded his Eagle sooner or later. I've seen national overrule some rather serious charges and deficiencies to make an award. The stuff you've presented here is beneath contempt. For only the tightest-wound among us would any of this even reach the level of holding a conversation. He swore and slammed a book down? At school? Four years ago? Get real.