Eagle Problems....BIG

[Beavah]

Yah, I agree with NeilLup, eh? Thank you letters right away, and whatever acts of sympathy and support for the CC that are genuine. While we might occasionally squabble over the rules for handin' out cloth patches, the rules for supporting each other are incontrovertible. We set aside our differences and come to the aid of our brothers in scouting in their time of need. That's who we are.

 

Sounds like there's a much longer history of behavioral issues here than what yeh had reported to us prior to this, mdsummer. And I'm sure we all as adults wonder when young people will learn that what they post on Facebook is a direct reflection of their character and can cost 'em jobs even years later. These days it's become routine for many employers to check current and historical Facebook postings as part of da employee screening process. So I reckon the SM has taught your son a valuable lesson that as a bright lad he should already have known.

 

All that having been said, I really do look askance at adults bringin' up behavioral incidents from four years earlier. One thing about kids. They grow. A lad who was a rascal as a freshman like as not is an outstanding citizen and leader as a senior. Rather than argue da facts, your son probably should just have said "that was four years ago, I apologized at the time, and I've learned a lot and grown a lot since then." Nothing shows maturity like agreeing and then putting in context. Nothing shows immaturity like arguing trivial facts. Still, I reckon most adults tend to feel as I do and simply dismiss "old" incidents if there's any sign of growth.

 

So this is on the cusp, eh? There are still a few current behavioral issues, and there's the tough job of overruling the sitting SM that NeilLup described.

 

I wouldn't fret about the delay, eh? If I were the CC and the SM left early, I'd want a chance to talk with da SM before makin' a final decision public. Just polite, eh? Especially when yeh might have to soothe egos and maintain relationships. Often an overruled SM will just resign, and that creates all kinds of problems. A good CC needs time to explain a hard decision and get the SM on board before a public ruling, or time to deal with the implications of a SM's resignation before it hits the street. That's not somethin' that can be delegated as easily as you suggest. His family issues and the SM's schedule are goin' to make finding the time and energy to do that a bit more challenging.

 

So I think yeh proceed politely as NeilLup suggests. They suggested you should hear by Monday, so check in Tuesday evening, being solicitous of the CC's needs. Let the DAC know you're waitin' patiently for the troop committee response, as the CC is dealing with some family issues. In any event, no further action on your part until a week from Monday or a couple days after da funeral, whichever comes last.

 

Beavah

 

[mdsummer45]

NeiLup

If my comments offended you I apologize. I was only attempting to clarify my posting. It appeared that what I was attepting to say was not clear. I appreciate everyones posting, you all certainly do not have to take the time out of your day to deal with my problems but i am greatful that you all have chosen to do so.

[mdsummer45]

"Rather than argue da facts, your son probably should just have said "that was four years ago, I apologized at the time, and I've learned a lot and grown a lot since then." Nothing shows maturity like agreeing and then putting in context. Nothing shows immaturity like arguing trivial facts"

 

Beavah:

 

He did not argue..if I gave that impression my error. He owned everything and then said here is what I learned from that situation....all of the comittee member commented on how thoughtful, prepared, polite he was for the meeting.

[NeilLup]

Hello mdsummer,

 

Thank you for your apology. Not necessary. I am very hard to offend.

 

I am very reluctant to use credentials as I believe that each post should stand on its own merits regardless of the status or lack of same of the poster. Suffice it to say that I have served on more than one review board for Eagle Scout and more than one appeal board. If your son is polite, respectful and knowledgeable, the odds are extremely high that he will get his Eagle. Even if not, if he has met the requirements, the odds are high that he will get his Eagle. It is certainly possible that he will run afoul of the age 18 requirement but with the paper trail you have, very unlikely.

 

What is now necessary, from what you have written, is for him to convince the Board that today, he has met the Eagle requirements. Perhaps in the past there were behavior issues. He's not the first candidate with those. Felons and teenage fathers have earned the Eagle Scout award. But it becomes much easier for the Board if he can present the attitude "That is what I was then. I've learned from that and this is what I am now" and his bearing, demeanor, etc. communicate that. Even if not, the Board will do their best, but if he makes it easy for them, then it's easy for them.

 

And I'm sure that he did thank the Board members at the meeting. That's what he's expected to do. Sending a thank you note would be exceptional and noteworthy. And isn't being exceptional and noteworthy what we expect Eagle Scouts to be?

 

That was the point of my earlier post. You and he did nothing wrong by not sending any such note, etc. But my suggestion was to make him exceptional and to make the job of the Board in approving him easier.

 

His character has been questioned. Anything he can do to address that question can, I believe, only be a plus.

[mdsummer45]

NeiLup

Point taken and recieved. What I have failed to mention is that my son left this morning for a school trip and will not be home until early next week. The committee members are aware of this, therefore I was suggesting to him to wait until he receives their decision and then follow up with a Thank you (either way good or bad). He will have very limited access to his email account and therefore it is not feisable for him to send out Thank you emails until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. Hopefully he will have heard something by then.

[Beavah]

My son also asked to address some of the points in the SM statement..my son owned all of the situations that the SM had mentioned but said to the committee..." I'm not calling Mr SM a liar but what Mr SM said is not exactly what happened". My son went on to explain each situation.

 

Yah, sorry if I misinterpreted, mdsummer45. I took this statement (and the long paragraph of details of disputed facts which followed it) as arguing the facts. As NeilLup suggests, it's better just to say "that was then, when I was a First Class Scout and still learning. This is now, when I act and behave like an Eagle Scout." That's the point to continue to convey going forward.

 

As for the timing, I reckon if your son isn't available then it ain't kosher for him to expect adults to get back to him on a timetable faster than what he's able to do himself. When he gets back, he should begin by checking in on the CC and his family. A card to CC's mom or a small set of flowers for the funeral are in order at least, or perhaps coordinating his fellows to show up at the funeral in uniform together as a sign of respect and support for a man who's no doubt given a lot to the troop during your son's 7 years. All with no strings attached, and no mention of da Eagle issue.

 

In the end your son is going to get Eagle, eh? But da only thing that really matters is whether he lives it.

 

Beavah

 

[evmori]

Ms Summer,

 

As Beavah posted, Facebook seems to be a problem! but something that happened in 9th & 10th grade is just digging up dirt. Especially if the only evidence is hearsay.

 

I'm sticking to my guns. Get the paperwork back & head to your council office. File the appeal now!

[Nike]

If the CC is taking his mom off life support this weekend, is he really going to have the time and energy to soothe the SM? I'm thinking he has a lot of other stuff on his mind.

 

BTW, how's the search for a new troop for son #2 going?

 

 

 

 

[mdsummer45]

Well, the letter from the Troop committee was emailed to my son at 11:45p last night. My son left his email open for me to check for the letter. As expected, the committee is supporting the SM. Based on the tone and content of the letter I feel that I was at a totally different meeting. But at this point it really does not matter. He will be appealing the decision immediately...my question is should I wait until Monday or call the DAC later today(Sunday). Also the letter stated they were forwarding a copy of the letter, and his Eagle application and Goals and Ambition statement to the DAC...how about his Eagle Service project book...shouldn't they forward that to the DAC also..or is that our responsibility. Do I need to make a copy of the entire book including all the pictures or is that necessary? Also, I thought that I read somewhere that at the appeal levels above the troop/unit level the scout is given the benefit of the doubt. Did i read that somewhere or did I just make that up. I'm so confused right now...

[GernBlansten]

Sounds like they ambushed your son. Waiting until near his 18th birthday to dredge up stuff from 4 years ago that should have been addressed in every SM conference. Then doing the "investigation" on the MySpace right before the hearing. Move on. Get #2 son in a better troop, it shouldn't be hard. I think the basis of the appeal should focus on the fact that the troop did little to inform the scout of their concerns until it was too late to rectify. Slam dunk appeal in my opinion. I'd still send them a very nice invitation to his ECOH.

[Eagle92]

Begin the appeals process ASAP. I hate to say it, but I know longer trust the leadership in this unit and would have your SON take matters into his own hands. Have HIM contact the DAC and confirm that they did forward everything to him. I would also give him a copy of the email they sent you, so that the DAC can pester them for the stuff as well as your son, squeaky wheel gets the oil as my old FD use to say.

 

I would also have your son make copies of EVERYTHING, multiples at that. If the unit has some of the stuff,he should ask for it back, and if they give him excuses, he should contact the DAC and/or DE immediately.

 

I concur with gern as it sounds like an ambush. The matter should have been resolved 4 years ago. And since the Sm stated he has not checked FACEBOOK for other eagle candidates, that says something to me.

 

Also find another troop ASAP for son #2 as it will get difficult to him, if it hasn't already

 

 

[mdsummer45]

Thank you for your comments...what bothers me is the low road the SM took by using his owns son's Facebook page to spy on my son. The only way anyone can see what you have posted on your Facebook is for the owner of the Facebook page to befriend a person. Everyone can not see what you have posted on your page, only people you invite. The SM used his own son to justify his feelings/decision. That is really sad. Everything was presented in such a vague way, they were only reacting to how my son acted 3-4 years ago. The SM was never present at any of the "incidents" that he addressed in his letter and with the exception of the meeting that took place over 2yrs regarding my sons failed first eagle project(which by my sons own admission was caused by poor communication) none of the committee members were first hand witnesses to any of the other "incidents". I guess it is human nature to see what you want to see and hear what you and to hear. My feeling is that this group has decided to perceive my son in a certain way, and no matter what he did, it was never going to be right, good enough or proper. What's done is done, and I expect no additional help from this group as my son travels the road to his EBOR. I know I can count on all of you to help guide my son through the maze of paperwork and such. We appreciate your help.

 

 

My 2nd son REFUSES to leave this group...his friends are there, he doesn't even know if he wants to become an Eagle. He is only in 9th grade and a Star scout...I feel I have to let him make the decision..After the dust settles with my older son I plan on contacting the committee and express an interest in becoming a committee member...wonder how they will handle that request.

[Lisabob]

I'm sorry to hear about how this has played out. Wish I could say I were surprised. The good news is that unless there is something big you've left out, this sounds like a pretty clear-cut appeal in favor of your son. I'd say call the DAC this afternoon.

 

I feel for your younger son though. If he is bound and determined to stay in this troop, make sure he clearly documents every little thing he does (in multiple copies) along the way from here on out. I think he's going to have an uphill battle, with many of the current adults who seem to have ambushed your older son attempting to do the same to him.

[Eagle92]

Concur with Lisa. I would have a chat with Son #2 and discuss what big brother is happening and how it may affect him in the future: not being approved for special activities like OA, Jambo, Philmont, etc. denial of PORs, having "challenges" with advancement, or worse having the leaders humiliate him in public. Hopefully none of this will happen, but I've seen some of this and the complaints that go with the problems.

 

Make sure you have multiple copies of advancement just in case. Never turn in anything without at least 1 copyt, preferably 2 being made and kept. Have son #2 keep a journal of his trips and document everything.

 

Sorry it's come down to this, but I've seen where leader think Scout A "gets away" with something that they cannot stop, they then focus on family.

[mdsummer45]

I've done my best to relay all of the my sons situation in a honest manner...is he the best scout..no, he did slack off and have very spotty attendance during his junior yrs of school, he's acknowledged that and tried to explain why...I guess that is his downfall he wants to explain why this happened..they see that as him justifying his actions, I see it as acknowledgment and explanation for the behavior..explaining does not mean lack of accepting responsibility, at least in my book it doesn't. In scouts if you are accused of something and the facts are not correct are you just supposed to yes Yes Sir and leave the fact inaccurate? Is the Scout the one who is always wrong? They can never question or challenge the accusation least it be see as not being obedient and not taking responsibility for their actions? They even had the nerve to state " My Son seems to feel that he "deserves" the Eagle rank, not that he has "earned" the rank of Eagle" Well, I was sitting right there and I do not remember my son saying that at all..quite the contrary..someone asked my son why he wanted the eagle rank and my sons words were "I feel have completed all of the requirement for the Eagle scout and I feel that I have done everything to earn that rank".Guess they didn't hear that.