Oak Tree Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Someone at the Chartered Organization must not want you at the meetings. Who told you that you are not allowed to attend? A parent recommendation is one of the requirements for Eagle. How was that handled? To answer the questions you've asked: "Does every boy deserve an Eagle?" No. "Did he deserve an eagle when he was breaking several points of the scout law while getting it?" Really hard to say. Clearly no one is perfect. Does a person deserve to graduate from seminary if he is still a sinner? "should scout leaders assist the child in obtaining the eagle without his parents' knowledge, or should they insist that the boy at least inform his parents of what he is doing?" Scout leaders often help Scouts achieve ranks without any direct involvement from the parents. Normally, though, you need a parent recommendation for Eagle. I would need to talk to the Scout to hear his side of why he wanted to do this before I could render an opinion on the specifics. "but there is also a question of their legal right to assist someone else's child in an eagle project without his parent's knowledge and consent. It might have involved the use of potentially dangerous equipment; if harm had come to him or someone helping him on the project, we would have been liable. " No, BSA insurance covers you. Plus, you signed him up for Scouting. You did sign him up, right? And didn't have him removed from the program? I don't think there's any question about their legal right. The Eagle project is no different from general participation in the program. "It would be nice to have been asked to help him make a scrapbook to bring with him." I have never seen a Scout bring a scrapbook to an Eagle BoR. "who would be qualified to answer my question if not other scouters?" Scouters can answer questions about the Eagle process. Specific questions about your son would be better for people who know both of you. Questions about how to best proceed in life can be answered by professionals, therapists, doctors, psychologists, lawyers, social workers, etc, in consultation with you. "Would there have been questions about his home life or how he gets along with his parents and siblings?" No, likely not. "If they knew he was on probation until his 18th birthday would that have had an impact on their decision?" Yes, likely that would have been a topic of interest and they would have discussed it with him if they knew about it. "Do the scout oath and law really mean anything anymore? Do we expect scouts, and especially eagle scouts, to really try to live by them, or is it just something you memorize and repeat at scout meetings?" Yes, they mean something. Do we expect perfect compliance? No. "What details do you need?" Well, it's not clear that you can even provide the details that would help make such a decision. A history of your interactions with your son and the Scout leaders. Your general tone and attitude. Body language. Communication style. Your son's side of the story. All of which I don't expect you to provide here. That's why everyone here keeps telling you to go talk to a professional. Do some bad kids get Eagle? Yes. The process is not perfect. Can we tell if it was a miscarriage of justice for your son to get Eagle? No, we can't tell. Your interactions here on the forum make you come across as argumentative and controlling. Can we imagine that your son might have grown to hate such an environment? Well, I can. But I don't know. Maybe you really are a great mom and your son just had other issues. ScoutNut answered your questions. I answered your questions as best I could. What more do you want here? Now, I know you didn't ask for opinions or for recommendations for family therapy, but since everyone here seems to be giving you the same response, might it make any sense to consider what people are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 moosetracker, thank you for your courteous response to my question. Lisabob, and everyone else who reads this, I'm sorry if I have offended you by posting here. I thought y'all could help me understand the troop leaders' thinking about what my son was doing, and you have, so thank you for all of your responses. And if my son or anyone in the troop is reading this, I want you to know that I forgive you for anything you did that inadvertently or intentionally hurt me, and I ask you to forgive me for anything I have said here that hurt your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Oak Tree, you seem to want me to stop posting here, but you asked me some questions, so I will answer them. "Someone at the Chartered Organization must not want you at the meetings. Who told you that you are not allowed to attend?" The CO, but he told me the reason was because the council forbade it, and as soon as the council tells him I can attend meetings, he will allow it. "A parent recommendation is one of the requirements for Eagle. How was that handled?" I have no idea. "Plus, you signed him up for Scouting. You did sign him up, right? And didn't have him removed from the program?" Yes, we originally signed him up, and we did not have him removed from the program. "I have never seen a Scout bring a scrapbook to an Eagle BoR" Maybe that's a regional thing, but we were told to do it for our other son. "Your interactions here on the forum make you come across as argumentative and controlling." I'm sorry you perceive my interactions here that way. They were not meant to be. I have tried to answer questions honestly and to correct misunderstandings when they have occurred, but I may also have reacted strongly to the rash judgment against me from many posters. "Can we imagine that your son might have grown to hate such an environment? Well, I can. But I don't know. Maybe you really are a great mom and your son just had other issues." I would say that I'm a good-enough mom. Not perfect, but not so bad that my kids can't wait to leave home because of me. I have four other children and a grandson who still like me, so I can't be all bad. We adopted our oldest son when he was 8, and he brought issues with him from his earlier life. "ScoutNut answered your questions. I answered your questions as best I could. What more do you want here?" Thank you. Your responses have been very helpful. "Now, I know you didn't ask for opinions or for recommendations for family therapy, but since everyone here seems to be giving you the same response, might it make any sense to consider what people are saying?" I would be willing to participate in family therapy, but my son will not, so there is nothing I can do about that. Now if there are no other questions, I am finished with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 OKAY FOLKS. ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM TIME. Here's what we know from two separate threads: 1. This woman's membership has been revoked by her council. The revocation had been upheld by region and she's now waiting to hear her final appeal from national. 2. Her CO has banned her from any Scout activity and makes her wait in the car and text her son's when it's time to leave. 3. Her not-quite 18-year-old son has moved in with his Scoutmaster and his wife, apparently over her objections. 4. The son has a troubled past, including a stint in juvenile detention. AND HER CONCERN HERE IS WHETHER OR NOT HER SON DESERVES TO BE AN EAGLE SCOUT?? ELEPHANT TIME: Either MBSM is a troll and having great time on our nickel, OR, this is a deeply, deeply troubled family which needs serious professional help, not worrying about the finer policy points of a comparatively unimportant youth program. (That is as politely as I can phrase that.) Clearly, there is nothing we on the forums we can do to get this lady the help she needs. If anyone recognizes this situation and can offer some real-world help, I would encourage them to do so. But otherwise I would hope the rest of us will quit feeding the elephant, do the decent thing and quit responding. This is not a rational situation and rational discussion is going to have no affect. Otherwise I encourage the moderators to close both threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I agree with Twocubdad. This is either a troll, or somebody with way too many problems to deal with on an internet forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Twocubdad, I already apologized and said I was finished with this thread. You didn't need to add another attack. Now I would like to ask the moderator to please delete this thread, but not the other one. The posters there have been kinder in their comments and have given me some information that may be helpful to me and other people in similar situations. (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I've been trying to close the thread since Lisa's last post. Those controls are not working for me for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 >>"I would be willing to participate in family therapy, but my son will not, so there is nothing I can do about that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Now it's time to say goodbye, to all our family... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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