SeattlePioneer Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Quite a few children have a tough time living through their teen and young adult years. They can be hard on themselves, their families and communities. The real struggle is to do what you can to help them get through this portion of their life while minimizing the damage to themselves and others and giving them an opportunity to find a place in the world for themselves. Some will, some will crack up with drug, alcohol and criminal issues. I'm sure your pride and your trust has been violated. I'd try to set that aside and consider how your son is doing now SINCE he got his Eagle. What are his prospects in life? Does he have a plan that has a reasonable chance of working, and is he working his plan? After a few years you can expect to reconcile when the dust from this adolescent period has settled and the results from his choices in life have started to become clear to everyone. Personally, I was didn't get along with my father ---we were way too much alike. He kicked me out the summer before my senior year in high school. I lived pretty much as a homeless youth in the late 1960s, but stayed in school and continued on to college. While I had plenty of grievances against my father, he had grievances against me too. After a few decades, we reconciled, especially after we both realized how similar we were to each other! In Scouting, we do our best. Sometimes that's not a high standard for either youth or adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof2cubs Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Good grief. The one thing I hate about reading advice-asking posts on the internet is that not only you never get the whole story (you hardly ever get that in real life anyways), but you can't see or hear the person and you have no way to judge tone, expressions, character, history, etc. You posted some REALLY vague information. I think what you wanted was for the SM and the BoR to deny your kid his Eagle because he didn't do it on your terms. I'm gonna answer your title question: Does every boy deserve an Eagle? Hardly, and you knew that. What every boy deserves is the opportunity to earn Eagle. Sounds like your kid got that. Your other question was: did he deserve an eagle when he was breaking several points of the scout law while getting it? I'm not sure that he broke Scout law. Scout law is something of an ideal that we should all strive to obey at every turn, but we all know we all fall short at times. Who wants to throw the first stone? Certainly not me. And based on your information, no one here can be sure that he really broke the law. There are other posts written by you regarding your BSA membership being revoked. I never heard of a membership being revoked on flimsy evidence. Not that I would really know. I try to not involve myself with the less than pleasant aspects of BSA (i.e. adults). Whether your kid deserved it or not is a moot point. Your kid got it and it's over and done with. Cannot be revoked. Be happy for him and work on re-establishing the relationship. If you can't do that, then work on being at peace with yourself by whatever means necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 When a child goes astray, the parents automatically get blamed. I could spend a lot of time trying to explain to you why my son did what he did and why it's not my fault, and not really his fault either. But some people are still going to judge me and assume that since he claimed abuse, it must be true, so there's no point in trying to defend myself in this forum. If you want to answer my questions, please do so. If you want to cast stones at me instead, go ahead. I'm used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It seems that this post is basically a means for you to vent, and/or get support that the SM and his wife wronged you. I am sorry about what you are going thru mbscoutmom. I can understand that you are upset. It is obvious that you and your oldest son have had issues for a while. You state he is adopted (legally, or a foster child?). This can add to the problems. Is he the son on medication for a mood disorder? This can also be a big stress on a family. Your son is now 18, and legally an adult. His Scouting career, and if he did, or did not, deserve Eagle is now water under the bridge as they say. I suggest that you back off from attacking the SM, his wife, and your oldest son. Give him the space he obviously needs. If your son was still a minor, I would suggest that you take him to counseling. I strongly suggest now that your family (you, husband, and other 3 kids) go to Family Counseling to work thru what is happening. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 "It seems that this post is basically a means for you to vent, and/or get support that the SM and his wife wronged you." No, I'm not just trying vent or to get you to agree with me. As I stated before, I would like you to give me an objective answer. I will restate my question this way: assuming the parents have not deliberately alienated their son, and are willing to help and support(and not by controlling how he does it) their son in achieving the eagle rank as they have helped and supported him all through his previous ranks, should scout leaders assist the child in obtaining the eagle without his parents' knowledge, or should they insist that the boy at least inform his parents of what he is doing? We're not considering legal action, but there is also a question of their legal right to assist someone else's child in an eagle project without his parent's knowledge and consent. It might have involved the use of potentially dangerous equipment; if harm had come to him or someone helping him on the project, we would have been liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 "You posted some REALLY vague information. I think what you wanted was for the SM and the BoR to deny your kid his Eagle because he didn't do it on your terms." I wouldn't expect him to be denied an eagle if he fulfilled all the requirements for it, and parental permission is apparently not one of them. I did want to be told that he was doing a project, what, where, and when it was, and I did want to know that he was going to his board of review, and I did want my husband to have a chance to talk to him about it. It would be nice to have been asked to help him make a scrapbook to bring with him. It would be very nice to have pinned his eagle on his shirt and receive the mother's pin from him. "I never heard of a membership being revoked on flimsy evidence." Well, you have now. I never expected anything like that to happen. If I had, I would have been more careful of what I said to other scout leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Read what Nike said earlier in this thread. Really, really consider the advice she gave. That's all I am going to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof2cubs Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You mentioned that both you and your husband are scout leaders. Would this be in the same troop as your son? How could you not know he was working towards his Eagle rank? And here's something else: at 17 when you state he went to live his SM and wife, he wasn't an adult was he? Why wasn't it possible for you to call the authorities and have your son brought back to your home? If as you say, there was no CPS investigation, why wouldn't they have returned your son? I really think there a whole lot more here. Not that it matters. I believe your original questions have been answered quite eloquently as best as they could be by forum posters. As a mom, I AM sorry that your relationship with your son is not all it could be. But we are not counselors or psychiatrists or social workers. I think John is right and Nike gave the best advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 This is wholly inappropriate. You really need qualified help, not advice from strangers on a on-line forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 "You mentioned that both you and your husband are scout leaders. Would this be in the same troop as your son? How could you not know he was working towards his Eagle rank?" Because the other leaders that knew about it deliberately kept it from us at our son's request. "And here's something else: at 17 when you state he went to live his SM and wife, he wasn't an adult was he? Why wasn't it possible for you to call the authorities and have your son brought back to your home? If as you say, there was no CPS investigation, why wouldn't they have returned your son?" At 17 in our state, and I think in many other states, the police will not pick up a runaway and return him home. It is a gray area in the law because it takes so long for something to go through the courts that he would be 18 by the time he came before a judge. Our son did have to go to court because of a time he stayed out all night before he turned 17, but it took 6 months for the case to get to the judge. "I really think there a whole lot more here. Not that it matters." Of course there is a lot more that I do not want to post here. "I believe your original questions have been answered quite eloquently as best as they could be by forum posters." Most posters have not answered the questions I asked, but what they thought I was REALLY saying, which was interpreted in the most negative way possible. "As a mom, I AM sorry that your relationship with your son is not all it could be. But we are not counselors or psychiatrists or social workers. I think John is right and Nike gave the best advice." Well, I didn't ask anyone for counseling or advice, just an objective opinion from scout leaders. Twocubdad, who would be qualified to answer my question if not other scouters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 >>"should scout leaders assist the child in obtaining the eagle without his parents' knowledge, or should they insist that the boy at least inform his parents of what he is doing?">"there is also a question of their legal right to assist someone else's child in an eagle project without his parent's knowledge and consent. It might have involved the use of potentially dangerous equipment; if harm had come to him or someone helping him on the project, we would have been liable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 First: If the SM has done something to which you so strenuously object because it has hurt your family, remove your other sons from the unit immediately. You have no other option, given the facts you've presented. How can you possibly trust the leadership? Second: In about two minutes of Web searching (trying to figure out what a R&G was), I found a troop in your state that held such an event on the very afternoon that you posted. I don't know if that's your sons' unit, but my point is that "anonymous" posts rarely are. Your son's leaders - or your son himself - could very easily find your posts here. How would that alter your relationship with your son? Please think before you post more details. As before, I suggest refocusing your attention to your son and other children, away from Scouting at the moment. Your family needs you. Scouting can go on without you for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Thank you, ScoutNut. That was a helpful answer to my actual question. shortridge, that's why I haven't posted all the details. If my son and the troop leaders see themselves here, that's fine. Go back and read what I posted, the actual things I said, not a negative interpretation of them. I haven't said anything here that I wouldn't have said to their faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm sorry for speaking so bluntly, but very little of this makes a lick of sense. I'm very, very sorry for your family, but no one here can help you. This is not a Scouting problem. What did the leaders and your son say when you accused the SM's wife of having ulterior motives? When you accused them of working behind your back? Of shutting your son out of your lives and perpetuating the rift? You had to have had some sort of a conversation with them about it to allow your husband and other sons to continue in the troop. Don't waste your energy ranting on an online board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbscoutmom Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I didn't come here to rant. I came to ask a question, but you asked me a question, so I will try to answer it. "What did the leaders and your son say when you accused the SM's wife of having ulterior motives?" I didn't say she had "ulterior motives". I said "her own reasons". You have interpreted what I said in a negative way, and that is not what was meant. "When you accused them of working behind your back?" I didn't accuse them of anything. There is no denying that the eagle was obtained without our knowledge. I stated in the first post what they said when my husband talked to them about it: they did it that way because it was the only way he would get his eagle. "Of shutting your son out of your lives and perpetuating the rift?" This is just a statement of the way things are, not an accusation. My son wants to shut us out, and they are going along with whatever he wants. "You had to have had some sort of a conversation with them about it to allow your husband and other sons to continue in the troop." Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts