Twocubdad Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Actually, I agree with Eng61. (GASP!) A program which places an emphasis on self-reliance and encourages young men to work together to solve their own problems is not a good fit for her and her son. Her expectation is for 24/7 eyes-on supervision, perferably her eyes, and that is not how the program works. Anyone who wants to find a solution to this situation can. An experienced Scouter sees numerous avenues which could lead to good outcomes all around. But Singlemom has already decided she doesn't want a solution. She's not here asking for help or advice, but to warn other single moms about our little testosterone-club. And even that's specious. The most telling part of her post was the last: I feel so guilty for encouraging him into boyscouts." This is about Singlemom, not about the troop or her son.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I think sports is a great place to learn character and teamwork and its a totally safe environment Valencia High Football players suspended Allegedly sexually assaulted teammates http://www.krqe.com/dpp/home/football-players-investigated Boy Beaten; Parents Demand Answers Freshman Football Player Beaten Unconscious By Teammates http://www.clickorlando.com/news/24998914/detail.html Cops: Wrestlers Were Hazed at Prairie Ridge High School http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Cops-Wrestlers-Were-Hazed-at-Prarie-Ridge-High-School-83582322.html Authorities investigating Fallon wrestling hazing incident http://www.sierrasun.com/article/20110112/SPORTS/110119949 Sierra Vista Basketball Player Sentenced in Hazing Case http://www.8newsnow.com/story/5072467/sierra-vista-basketball-player-sentenced-in-hazing-case Carmel Police: Sexual Assault Took Place In Locker Room 4th Carmel Basketball Player Disciplined http://www.theindychannel.com/news/22684607/detail.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartHumphries Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I don't understand the original poster's post. How would the situation have been different if she hadn't been a single mother? Possibly she was thinking that if she wasn't a single mother then the father would have gone along with her boys, although most boys who go on a campout don't bring their dads along, so I don't see how not being a single mother would have changed the situation. That's terrible that the incident occurred, something should definitely be done about it, but I don't think the solution is to run out and get married first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I was asked... "On a serious note, if two of your players had a fight during practice or a game, would you not get everyone involved together to sort it out? Would you also recommend that the offended party look to another activity?" No. I don't need "everyone" to sort things out and decide what to do. *I*, not some committee, would take the principals and the direct witnesses, find out what happened and kick the attacker off the team. Then I would ensure that the player was banned from the league. Then I would inform the victim and his parents what was done and offer to refund their fee, should they decide not to continue. What should have happened in OP's case was that the SM (and no one else) would have approached the parent immediately , told her what happened and informed her that the attacker was booted out and will not be permitted to return. When the stronger picks on the weaker just to prove his own might, it's the ultimate act of cowardice. What struck me as odd was the almost immediate defense of the attacker (and family). This tells me that this is not the first time that this kid has attacked. That would have been another red-light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 A question for Twocubdad...I'm curious... Exactly what part of getting beaten up by a "much older" kid has the possibility of teaching this boy self-reliance? Exactly what part of getting beaten up by a "much older" kid has the possibility of teaching this boy to how people are to work together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof2cubs Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Engineer61: I'm not advocating in ANY way, shape, or form what happened at that camping trip. However, things like this happen. They happen, unfortunately, everywhere. And while I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone, let alone my son(s), I would take the opportunity to teach my sons about self-defense, about dealing with bad situations, about discussing things with other adults in charge, about diffusing potentially dangerous situations, about learning how to deal with difficult people, etc. Pulling him out altogether from scouting will teach this boy nothing. And again, we DO NOT KNOW what really happened. Mom says son got "beaten". Maybe. Maybe it was just a shove (not that this is more acceptable). Mom says "no one showed concern for my son". Maybe. But maybe it this incident was the culmination of a long road of dealing with a difficult parent. I am having a VERY hard time believing that a whole bunch of scout leaders just let this incident go and went and defended the older boy. In my time in scouts I have met many many different types of leaders, as I am sure you have too. I have never met anyone that would have let this situation happen with no consequences. Also, maybe the older kid has issues too. Maybe he is OCD, or ADD, or some form of Autism and truly could not control himself (I'm sure everyone here has had experience with these type of boys, no?). Maybe the leaders and parents are aware of it and they are dealing with it and they wanted to explain to single mom the situation to no avail. Single mom wouldn't even meet with anyone to accept an apology! Again, two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhankins Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 There are three sides to a story, one side, the other side, and the truth. I like the pancake analogy tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 There are far more than three sides to most stories... I generally take everyone at their word, until they prove otherwise. Given the detail that the OP provided, widow, was told that the other boy and family was "good", no mention of special conditions, OCD/ADD/ADHD/etc. I, incidentally, have never allowed my boy's ADD/ADHD to be an excuse for anything. That would be irresponsible. So, I'm inclined to believe the OP...but that's just me. She didn't come in with a "BSA is bad, bye" post. Y'alls mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 To OldGreyEagle: Do you know what the one big difference is between your headlines and what the OP presented? The reports are: 1) Public 2) Being investigated by third parties. Not exactly what happens in the BSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Of course her post was a "BSA is bad, bye" post. What else could it have been. I mean she writes that she sees and hears that scouting is a men's club, and a testosterone club. If that's not "BSA is bad" I don't know what it is. The thing is, we don't know the whole story. If it's pretty much what she wrote, she's totally in the right. The thing is, it doesn't meet the smell test. There are important details missing. Older boys rarely just beat younger boys for no apparent reason. I would like to hear more about the circumstances around the beating. That doesn't mean that I think the beating was acceptable, it just means that both boys may be guilty of something. It also may have started out innocently, and ended up with the older boy hitting the younger one. Having been a boy, I know that sometimes what starts off as play ends up as a fight (a beating). Happened between me and my brothers all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherminator505 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 "Of course the scout leaders would like us to come back to "get to the bottom of it" but I can't let my son have to sit and listen to any more "male role models" make ridiculous excuses for the aggressive behavior of their friend's son. I mean the kid is sorry, I mean he has a great dad, nice guy!" Well, it sounds to me as if this mother has already decided that this cannot be resolved, and has already made up her mind about "male role models." She also ascribes anti-woman biases to most of the troops in her town, save the one she let her son join. Based on these preconceived notions, I'm not sure if she would accept any Scouting program as legitimate, as she seems to have made that determination before this incident ever happened. I also have questions about her attitude toward men in general, given her remarks about testosterone and so forth. As such, I feel that I have already spent too much time on this thread. Toodles!(This message has been edited by sherminator505) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus96 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I doubt the original poster plans to ever read these replies, but I'll write this as though she was. Singlemom, I don't know what you think would have happened differently if you were on the campout. the one time that a similar situation happened to me, it was well out of sight of any adults, and it was another scout that pulled the other scout off of me. You may say that there shouldn't be a situation were the scouts are out of sight of the adult leaders, but I know that that would be a program that would interest me much less. Some scouts may disagree, but I think it is the adventure and self-reliance that makes scouting fun. I am sorry that this happened to you, but I doubt you or anyone else could have prevented the attack from taking place, and I don't think you being a single mom has anything to do with that. I have a single mom, but only my friends that I know outside of the troop know that. my parents have never been to a meeting or camping trip, my friends dad drives me to each meeting. Despite that, i have been a patrol leader, troop guide, ASPL, SPL and Chapter Chief. I find it hard to believe that you had anything to do with your sons experiance. Engineer 61, I don't understand why you dislike scouting so much. From your posts, your son seems to have fun with it. Is that not enough for you? Just let him enjoy it without your negativity ruining for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 F.Y.I. - I had two very responsible parents, and I got bullied my first year in my troop. So, don't blame it on the single parent thing. The bullies didn't back off, but more of us stood up to them. Eventually they left, we stayed. The SM tried to maintain discipline. I don't know if he talked to my parents or not. From my perspective it didn't work. On the other hand, I stayed, they left. I had experienced bullying before scouts. My mom's advice, "stop whining, get big." I didn't quite know what to do with that at the time she gave it, but she did raise three older boys and one girl, so I figured there was no point in disagreeing. At the same time she let the bullies know in no uncertain terms that expected better from them. Somehow it all worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well Engineer, that went flying over your head, read the original post again and you will see an exhortation to put your son in sports. You yourself suggested another activity for the boy and we know you advocate sports My post was a quick google of team mates and beating and hazing. Funny thing is if you google sports, hazing and High School you get plenty of stories of beatings and hazings of atheletes. You google Boy Scout and hazing and are overwelmed with the webistes of troops which have their no hazing policy pretty well published. And yes, you get some stories of boy scouts and hazing I regretfully must add WHat happened to the boy was bad, no one says it wasnt. I wish I could guarantee all youth everywhere would be safe from injury at the hands of another youth or adult but until I acheive omnipotence you guys are on your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 We have no idea what happened at camp other than the story from somebody who was not there, wasn't happy her son was there and basically...already regretter he son being there before he even went. But what does sound familiar to me from personal association with it before is this: "My poor,poor super innocent sweet angelic child was beat up by a bigger , older scout. Nobody helped him. Matter of fact, the entire troop, the adult leadership, - and even the COR and and by association...the CO - encouraged it. But be sure of one thing: My son was 100 percent, absoulutrely innocent and did not, could not in any way, instigated anything whatsoever!" Again, who knows whats going on, but like I said, that tune has a familiar ring to it. It's one I have heard from friends, from neighbors, from co workers, and from scout moms and dads too. Their kids would run around and be pestering, picking on, irritating and flat out instigating trouble, and when somebody finally had enough of it and reacted... the parent wanted somebody's head on a platter. Back in the day, we had a mom on our firedept. Her boys were angels. They were just about the living definition of saints if you asked her. Well, those two little cherubs were kicked off school bus after school bus after school bus. Finally, the mom had to drive them to school. But it wasn't her boy's fault. Nosiree! It was all those awful adults ganging up on her sons. Had a scout mom who's son really should have been on something like Ritalin. Bouncing off the walls isn't so bad, but running around hitting, kicking and even spitting on people. He'd spit on total strangers too. Mom blamed everybody. Her son was just being precious. Those people were being ugly! Again, may not be the same case here..but the tune is soooo familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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