18 year old female, ASM

[kahits]

So, if Kodiak X is all about mentoring, does that mean it only applies if you are with someone who is the same sex?

[Eagle92]

DCS,

But mentoring and counseling is a responsibility of the SPL to his PLs, at least I taught the Counseling Segment during JLT, it may have been replaced when NYLT came out. But at 1 time BSA did teach counselign and mentoring to youth leaders.

 

 

So a 16 yo SPL can mentor his PLs, but an 18 yo ASM can't?

 

I think you are wasting a valuable resource by not using your young adult. Yes gbeing a Gray Area Scouter (GAS) can be challenging, but I know I made an impact with the youth I mentored and counseled during that period. heck as I said I taught that class at JLT, when I was a GAS.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[BadenP]

After all this quibbling lets look at the facts, ok, she is eligible to be an ASM, if she is like many of the female venturers I have or had in my crew she is much more than qualified to teach outdoor skills to the boys, in fact many girls can put the boys to shame when it comes to outdoor skills. Can she be in the OA, IMHO she should be but it really does not matter since females have been part of the OA for years so why argue over trivialities it is not like we are trying to pretend that the OA is still some kind of male bastion in scouting anymore, are we?

 

Another point it probably won't hurt the troops numbers during recruitment either, so if this young woman is really worth her salt then she should be given every opportunity to be the best leader she can be, period.

[BDPT00]

"Can she be in the OA, IMHO she should be but it really does not matter since females have been part of the OA for years"

OK, so I've read this several times, and it still makes no sense. But even if it did, she's not eligible. Moot point.

BDPT00

 

[desertrat77]

So we are making leadership decisions based on gender?

 

Interesting. I just checked the calendar, to see what year this is...yep, it's 2009. For a minute, I thought it was 1909.

 

The decision to hire a woman as ASM should be made on her maturity, intelligence and other such qualities.

 

There are 18 yr old men and women that aren't ready for ASM duties. Other men and women are.

 

Making assessments on what we perceive the scouts might perceive is rarely accurate. Making blanket assessments based on age and gender plays into stereotypes.

 

This is another example of we potentially turn away new volunteers.

[BadenP]

BPDT

Oh contrare my friend say this 18 year old woman became an ASM and she left the venturing crew, then she would be eligible for the OA like so many other female SM's and ASM's, so not a moot point afterall.

[captainron14]

It amazes me to see how many times people who are so focused on being right that they either ignore what was said before, or totally misstate it.

 

Female membership in the OA is not allowed until 21 years of age (becoming an adult in the OA's eyes)regardless of what Leadership position held, ASM or otherwise.

So until the OA changes this policy, IT IS A MOOT POINT.

 

As for the idea of a 18 year old female being an ASM. First of all, we have to get off what is good for "her" and focus on what is best for the boys. Being a Leader in the BSA is a privilege, not a right. She may be qualified, but not be the right fit as determined by the committee and the CO.

 

I have to wonder if this discussion of a 18 year old female ASM was not the real reason for this question.

[Eagle92]

BadenP,

According to the Guide for Officers and Advisers, an 18-20yo female ASM cannot be eligible for the OA.

 

cannot cut and paste the passage, it's in a pdf file, but in a nutshell it says the following.

 

All members of a unit under 21 years of age are eligible to be candidate into the OA if they meet the following criteria

 

1)be registered with the BSA

2)Hold the First Class rank of the BSA as a minimum (emphasis added)

3) Do 15 days and nites of camping.

 

The site cited is the national OA Website under resources. It is password protected, but still don't want to give the direct link, every now and then I've been able to bypass passwords going directly to a link.

 

Hope this helps.

 

(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[BadenP]

Well I guess my council's lodge interpret the guidelines different cuz they recently inducted a 19 year old female ASM into the Order, when I was a DE no women were allowed in and now I see plenty of women wearing their OA sashes to scouting events. I think once you open the barn doors its hard to keep the horses in and these gray guidelines get interpreted and reinterpreted until no one is really sure or cares.

Eagle 92, I think that since there are women who have never received first class in the OA that rule is for youth only and not adults who are chosen to be inducted.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Eagle92]

BP

You are correct the First Class requirement is for youth membership in the OA only, so the 19y.o. OA member should NOT have been inducted according to national's policy.

 

[BadenP]

Well Eagle92 I will say this the National policy seems to be real loose when it comes to inducting adults since its more about bestowing an honor than the youth service aspect. In a little over a year this woman will be 21 anyway and she is absolutely awesome in her skills and knowledge. She has really turned her troop around from little to no advancement to almost 100% advancement, and the lodge really wanted to honor this accomplishment. The lodge officers received approval of all the adults,including the SE.

 

Not to brag (ok maybe just a little)she is a former member of my crew, was crew president for three years and received both the Silver and Ranger Awards, staffed and ran Kodiak and the VOA. If there ever was going to be a female Eagle Scout this lady would have been a great candidate. Guidelines and rules do and have changed over the years when it makes sense to do so or they have become obsolete.

[desertrat77]

BadenP, thank you for sharing this with us and congratulations to the young lady. This is a great example of leadership in action, yours and hers.

 

There are many other ladies like her that would excel in scouting. I wonder how many walk away, or stay away, because of old style attitudes about what women can/can't do.

 

 

[Eagle92]

BP,

Just stating what national has said.

 

Me personally, I don't have a problem, but I remember the uproar it caused when female leaders were allowed in.

 

HMMM would be some interesting ceremonies if the ladies did them. None could be the MM to the best of my knowledge, but a few tribes have had female chiefs and warriors. Also the ladies couldn't sit at the drum, behind and the men.

[BDPT00]

What is MM?

I see no "gray" in eligibilty, so the induction of a 19 year old non-First Class Scouter is totally inappropriate. The reaction or justification to this gray area would be no different than allowing a non-citizen (although very award of the issues ... more aware than most eligible voters) to vote in a political election.

This has nothing to do with being worthy or capable. It has everything to do with eligibilty, which happens to be black and white.

BDPT00

 

[Eagle92]

Let me rephrase, I would not have a problem with youth female OA members. National has said for the moment, hopefully b/c the youth want it this way and not a bunch of old fogeys like me, that anyone under 21 must have held First class. Once national changes the policy, i would not have a problem with it.

 

As for the point that she shouldn't be a member, concur b/c she doesn't meet the current eligibility requirements.

 

as for MM, medicine man. To my knowledge I do not believe any Native American nation had medicine women, But with over 500 different groups, anyone saying they know it all is a liar b/c traditions differ from nation to nation.

 

As for female chiefs and warriors, the Houma of SE Lousiana had both, and the Cherokee of OK had a female principle chief.(This message has been edited by eagle92)