18 year old female, ASM

[Mafaking]

 

We seem to agree that she can be an ASM. The real question is should she?

 

 

 

 

[BDPT00]

"Regarding OA eligibility, as I understand the requirements she simply could not be put on the ballot with other youth members."

*** Correct. Doesn't meet rank requirement.

 

"She could later be nominated by the troop committe as an adult candidate where the rank requirement does not apply."

*** Also correct, if "later" means 21 years old.

 

"I personally have never had to deal with the question of someone between 18 and 21, of either gender, regarding OA eligibility. Regardless of gender, I would consult with the OA lodge advisor."

*** Non-First Class Scouts between 18 and 21 are eligible to vote, but cannot be on the ballot. ASMs of that age who meet the requirements are eligible as youth.

BDPT00

[Eagle92]

As a former "Gray Area Scouter," a local term used to describe those ADULT Scout leaders age 18-20 who are also considered youth for OA and Venturing purposes, they are a valuable resource who can usually get the respect and attention of the youth better than soem of the "old fogeys" that I am part of Today

 

Because I've "been there done that" the scouts could relate better to me than some of the other leaders. Usually the older scouts were ones I worked with in my role as a ASPL and as part of the Leadership Corps, so we had an established relationship that could be used when challenges arose. With the younger scouts, I was viewed as an example of what scouting could do and the fun that awaited you. I did have some specialized skills, mostly aquatic being a BSA Lifeguard with at the time 2 fifty milers under my belt AND a YMCA Lifeguard instructor, so I had some serious skills and certifications that other adult leaders did not have.

 

Sorry if this seems a rant, but it seems like some folks in the BSA wants the youth to gain KSAs to be leaders, but once they hit the 18-20 year old period, suddenly all the KSAs that you spent instilling in the young adult over the past 7 years are meaningless, and you no longer trust them to do anything.

[shortridge]

Mafaking: Why shouldn't she?

[Mafaking]

 

Ok, I'll step off the cliff on this one.

 

Geronimo!

 

Because

 

An 18 year old girl looking after 13 year old boys is more like a babysitter than a mentor. It doesn't have the feel of young men leading young men. I believe we already have a culture where too often the boys sit back and allow girls to take leadership roles. This situation would reinforce that notion.

 

 

 

 

[kahits]

So, female Venturers should only teach other girls? She is Red Cross 1st Aid/CPR cert., Powder Horn, as well as VLSC, and Kodiak.

[Mafaking]

 

 

Teaching and infrequent instructions are one thing. And a direct leadership role as an ASM is another.

 

I am sure you are very proud of her as any parent would be of child whith such accomplishments.

 

But, this SM would not put her in the role as ASM for the reasons I cited earlier.

 

[kahits]

You didn't answer the question, who is she supposed to teach? Isn't that one of the purposes of Venturing? Whether she does it in a green or a tan uniform, is not the issue. The SPL is still in charge, and ASM's are there for other reasons.

[Eagle92]

Mafaking,

Would you put an 18 yo male in an ASM role? Then why not an 18yo female ASM? Units' COs have the ability to pick whoever they want as leaders, so if they want to, they can limit it to males only. Just as venturing crews can be limited to females only, it's up to the discretion of the CO.

 

However I wouldn't discount the young lady due to age or gender. While I have one bad experience with females in Scouting with my sea scout ship (the ship was more of a babysitting servivce), I've had no problems since.

 

One funny incident though. At a council camporee, there was a crew whose members were all girls b/c the males were with their troops. They were in the 14-16 yo range. It was patrol competitions, and all the troops were issued a book with details of all the events. The all girl crew didn't get any advance notice on what the events were until the nite before the events. However they did read the BSHB prior to coming to camporee, and the nite before after learning the events. They didn't want to compete, but just have fun. However someone in the district said that they were in the competition anyway as venturing crews could compete per the rules. Long story short, those 4 girls outshone all the patrols, including one venture patrol that did PHILMONT!

 

Don't discount the ladies.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Mafaking]

 

 

I am not looking to say harsh things. But its coming out that way.

 

"Who is she to Teach?" Her needs are not my concern.

 

She may teach the boys in the unit upon the leadership's invitation. We would likely use her if she had skills we were looking for. However, I would not have her as an ASM for the reasons I cited in the previous post.

 

 

 

 

[sherminator505]

I suspect that an 18 year old ASM is an abstract concept for most of the posters on this topic. Having been an 18 year old male ASM, I can tell you that it is an awkward place to be for a number of reasons. You are constantly confronted with situations that require you to step back when all of your instincts as a participating Scout or Venturer tell you to jump in. The parents in the troop have a very hard time distinguishing you from one of the older members, and the older members have a hard time seeing you as an adult leader. The fact that she is female probably adds more awkward layers to an already complex situation.

 

The point of my rant is that it is probably better that our 18 year old female ASM has three years to sort out her role as a leader in the Troop before she goes up for recommendation to OA. By then, the awkwardness will have resolved and people will feel better about the move.

[John-in-KC]

Remember that any adult nomination to the Order is not to be construed an honor. Instead, it's to be an objective assessment of the adults' potential contribution to the youth of the Troop and the Lodge by undertaking the Ordeal.

[gsdad]

If she is qualified, and respected by the troop membership and leadership I see no problem with it. Her age is irrelevant. Some hardliners would argure against her as to not upset the way things used to be, but she is volunteering her time to the troop.

[Mafaking]

 

 

I have two male 18 year old venture crew scouts that did a good job this past year and at summer camp. They came out of a different troop so it was easy to identify themselves and to the troop as mature young adults. I am losing both to out of state colleges this month. What a loss to the troop, but what great men these fella's are becoming.

 

I would gladly take an 18 year old male Venture Crew scout. Just not a female.

 

And before I start getting Private Messages on what a nasty I am towards women, I have a Sliver awarded Girl Scout whom I am pushing to get her gold while she participates in a BSA Venturing Program.

 

 

 

[walk in the woods]

OK, I'll jump off the cliff with Mafaking. I wouldn't have her as an ASM either. Technical skills aren't the issue. Teaching boys to become young men is the issue and she simply doesn't have that experience. Now before people start screaming I'm a sexist, in answer to Eagle92's question, no, I wouldn't make an 18 YO boy an ASM either for the same reason. I'd be happy to have either come in and teach a technical skill but ASM is less about skills and more about mentoring.