Is it disrepectful to request WB beads just be mailed?

[BrentAllen]

brian,

You can't ask our opinion on something and not give us enough information to form an opinion. Saying you went to another country to study their culture is extremely vague. Where you went, what you studied, was it related to Scouts, what you learned and what you did with the information are all legitimate, important questions. If you can't answer those questions, then we can only make our own assumptions, which at this point won't be very favorable. One of my ticket items was similar to this, and I will share the details, after you share yours. Fair enough?

 

nldscout,

FScouter has a hair trigger on his edit key. The other moderators appear to have the standard 4.5 lb trigger weight on theirs. We'll see if this survives.

[SueM]

BTW...when I asked about the 6 month "rule" at the course I was on staff for this fall, I was told by the course director and a former course director that there is no such rule. HOWEVER we were to highly encourage people to that minimum amount of time doing their tickets.

 

sue m.

[Eamonn]

"Is this disrespectful? "

I'm not sure!

On one hand they are after all your beads.

You if you wanted to have a presentation of them, would have the last word as to where and when.

The beads are just tiny bits of wood on a leather thong.

A lot of people not in Scouting have asked me why I'm wearing a necklace.

On the other hand.

I know that I was overjoyed to have the participants from the course I directed invite me to their Beading Ceremony.

I think the other members of both their WB Patrol and Troop were happy to share in the celebration.

The ceremony doesn't have to be done on "The Boys Time" or at a COH.

One Cub Scout WB Den held a reunion and all got their beads in a room at a motel!!

If you don't want the other Scouter's to share in your celebration or feel that there is nothing to celebrate?

Maybe having them mailed is the best thing!

I'd hate to be invited to a celebration where the host wasn't into what was going on.

As an organization we are very fortunate that people freely give of their time and resources.

I am constantly in awe of the female Den Leaders who work full time have big families, look after the house, run around to look after aged parents, attend PTA meetings, do the flowers in the church, ring the bell for the Salvation Army, help where needed with Girl Scouts and still find time to stop in and visit my wife.

Of course they would never complain or hold up what they do as being anything special. They seem to have a deep understanding of what "Do my best" means.

Just as our Council Commissioner has never mentioned the $100,000's he has donated to the BSA and our Council over the year. He does this because he wants to and can.

As to the web site?

Again it's your site.

I did visit it once, I wasn't impressed or upset. There are a lot of web sites that deal with Scouting, I'm sure that the people who put them together are proud of them, I hope that the people who use them find them helpful.

If you are happy with the stuff you placed on your web site? I'm happy for you.

I'm happy not to go back to it. It has nothing of any interest to me.

Eamonn.

[SSScout]

I once had a supervisor (one of many. I work for a goverment agency) come to me and compliment me on a report I had just submitted. He said he always found my work complete, clear and such that unlike some others, he "never had to come back and ask more questions". I said thank you, and then in a fit of inspiration, I said "could you maybe put that in writing for me?" He was obviously taken aback by that request, but replied, "absolutely. You know, I should do that sort of thing more often. I'll address it to XYZ ( the department head). Let me know when you hear from him?" I thanked him again.

About a month later, I hadn't heard from XYZs office, so I called a friend in her

office. No, they hadn't seen the compliment. So I checked back with the original super, and he said, "mmm, I sent that up the day after I spoke to you. Let me check". Turned out a jealous colleague had held the compliment and so XYZ would never see it. The first super good naturedly sent a copy directly to XYZs office, rather than "via" the other colleague. I received my official "attaboy".

 

BB: 1) Reread the sentence you quoted sending to your TG. Does it sound respectful (never mind the request itself) and grateful for the opportunity,

or does it sound like you attach any value to the award?

2) What Lisabob said.

3) Everyone wants to be "appreciated", even secretly. Even tho your comments here have raised hackles, you have accomplished your purpose in getting folks to think about what to some Scouters is the unthinkable: that maybe, MAYBE, somethings in Scouting need attention. They may not agree with you in everything that needs attention(Lord knows, I don't), but I do agree that Scouting as a movement needs to be thought over and fingers can be pointed.

THEREFORE I would ask you, WHY do you NOT (seemingly) want to be appreciated? Having your award "MAILED" to you really leads to all sorts of questions none of which have anything to do with Scouting and everything to do with BB hisself.

4) Try not to concurrently try to be successful and then poo poo that success (gorsh, ain't I humble). Help others to be successful. Your 'sky is falling' attitude is useful only if you know how to patch the ceiling plaster, and the congregation

wants you to do the patching.

 

 

I'm signed up to take WB this spring. I've been aske why I didn't put in for it sooner. I've been asked when I DID take it (compliment there). I look forward for the challenge of it. I almost dread accepting the challenge of it. was your WB REALLY that bad?

 

YiS, because.

 

 

[baden]

Brian-

 

I guess if you want to get your beads in the mail it is up to you. Speaking as a former Troop Guide, I would have been disappointed if I hadn't been able to participate in the ceremony for a member of "my" patrol. We friendly Troop Guides do take an interest in the progress of the members of the Patrol we have served. If you feel your course Scoutmaster and Troop Guide have not served you well, carry on Sir.

[Gonzo1]

Brian,

I don't think it's disrespectful as much as it is selfish.

 

You staff members helped you along, taught you, I dare might even say 'put up with you'. And after all the grief you get here, you're going to put your award in a drawer? It's not the weight (about an ounce) that matters, it's the symbol of accomplishment.

 

There are other threads on beading ceremonies, check them out. I had a private ceremony with my patrol, our favorite staff members, some district folks, some refreshments, etc. No Scouts for this one IMO, it's not about your receiving recognition in front of them, it's about serving them later, on an ongoing basis. Wear your beads with pride. When you see another scouter with beads, you'll have an instant bond.

 

Imagine if you see a scouter with beads and you tell him(her) 'yeah, I went to WB, got my beads too, but they're sitting in a drawer' I think that would be sad.

 

I hope you change your mind, have a meaningful ceremony, and continue to "work your ticket if you can"

 

Gonzo1

SR-59

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

 

Brian,

You condemn the old ways that are driving lads away from Scouting.

Why would you want to wear beads that date from the Boer War. You'd have better luck finding a unicorn than a lad 11-17, not in Scouting, that could point to where the Boer War was fought.

 

The Taupe necker with the Clan MacLaren(sp?)swatch? You hate neckers and have railed against them on many occasions. Will you look dorky(your words not mine) in yours?

 

I have thought many times that you are an internet troll, here only to bother us. Sometimes you misuse some of the WB lingo. Care to publish your numbers so we may verify you really took the course? The individual number will be on the certificate that you receive right after your 106 +/- year old beads and dorky necker.

 

 

FWIW, I got my beads at a pack meeting, CD sunk a painted axe in a 12" diameter birch log. The Cubs felt part of it because they and my Den Chief were the focus of 4 of my five "tickets"(your word not mine)

 

Finally I was angriest of all that you say we are backwards old dinosaurs, obsolete, out of touch with reality and those we serve. You still, to this day have never posted any type of solution or helpful hint on how to make the movement better.

[evmori]

What really bugs me is all you want, Brian, is for someone to "stick them in an envelope". Yet you belittle the WB patrol names & lots of other stuff that is Scouting. You feel these things need to change yet you want recognition for completing (according to you) your ticket! Those beads you want someone to "stick in an envelope" are earned not given. And while you feel you have earned them, your posts here & in other forums indicate the only thing you did was show up.

 

And I too, would like to know your course number. You should know it.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

NE-V-120

Eagle Patrol

[brianbuf]

I appreciate most of the above input.

A troll, no, I assure you I really did go to WB.

Sorry I won't post details of my trip. Because I am not as good a writer as I would like to be, that ticket would be critized endlessly here... and my TG would be critized as well. Sorry.

 

I have appreciated the positive and insightful comments, and have grown and modified my website and perceptions.

 

However, there are some that have been very hostile. If I published my course number, it would be pretty darn easy to find out my name, my TG, my district commissioner, my council leaders, etc. And since no one but my TG knows about my website locally, this might cause some tension. I don't want to be on the outs with my leadership, so no I won't give my course number.

 

Specifics... there are three specific recommendations listed on my website. With a call for the Irving leadership to study the issues more, like the Girl Scouts did for 2 years. But that has nothing to do with the specific question on this thread. Why bring it up here?

 

Someone brought up the Boer War era... not to offend anyone, but just because I earned the beads does not mean I plan on wearing them. As previously said, I can't wear everything I ever earned (not necessarily just scouting, just generally. If I used that mode of thinking, my room would be full of every star I got from kindergarten through college and grad school... keeping every acolade out would make for an impassable bedroom... my wife would have to sleep on the couch!! You get awards and move on, in my house)

 

Last, thanks for the suggestion of considering my TG. A great guy. When we next talk I will make sure he is ok with just mailing with no ceremony. If he has reservations, I will rethink this for his benefit, not mine.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

Sorry I won't post details of my trip. Because I am not as good a writer as I would like to be, that ticket would be critized endlessly here

 

Or could it be this trip was a family cruise? Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with a family cruise. Been on a few. Loved 'em. But using an excursion to a Maya ruin to complete a WB ticket item seems a little suspect to me.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[BrentAllen]

brian,

Your reluctance to give any details of your trip leaves us to our own conclusions, and wondering why you are so reluctant to discuss it. You surely can't expect us to give an opinion with such limited knowledge.

I'll go ahead and give the details on my ticket item.

 

As part of a 3 week family trip to South Africa and Namibia, we spent 4 days in Cape Town. Before leaving, I contacted a Cub leader there through the internet, starting out discussing patch trading. He turned out to be our personal guide in Cape Town. My son and I visited 2 Packs with him, one white (well to do) and one black (very poor).

When we visited the black Pack, the leaders came out to escort us in from our vehicle - the crime in the area was that bad. The boys were from extremely poor families, but they were there, being Scouts. Some wore their khaki uniforms, others couldn't afford them. Very few patches were on any of the uniforms. When they had inspection, each boy was asked if he had coins for a phone call, and also coins for a friend to make a phone call. I think only 1 boy had any coins at all. They sang songs, and played a simple game of passing a potato down the line, from neck to neck, without using their hands. My son and our guide's son fit in right with them. They were fascinated with our uniforms, with all the patches and colors.

The white Pack was much different. For one thing, they were affiliated with a Sea Scout unit, so they wore a different uniform, very similar in color to our Cub Scouts. They had all the patches and wore a very nice neckerchief - much more expensive than the other Pack. They had their own building and had a lot of equipment. The other Pack met in a school gym, which was in pretty bad condition.

While there were dramatic differences in the physical appearance, the boys in both Packs were doing Scouting, and they were having a lot of fun doing it. I could see B-P's dream right in front of me - a program that would interest, and connect, boys from different countries, cultures and socio-economic backgrounds. It was simply amazing!

I took a boatload of patches and books to trade with Gavin, our guide. He was trading with Scouts all over the world through the internet, and had an impressive collection. I also took a couple of our ScoutStuff catalogs. When I showed it to him, he was speechless. He couldn't believe all the different Scout "things" that were available. They had one Scout shop, at their area headquarters. It was very small, and offered only a few items other than uniforms. Gavin gave one of our cataloges to the woman in charge, telling her that was going to be their new inventory - she was not amused - but I did see her later scanning each and every page!

I had let Gavin know I was interested in making a donation to help the black Pack. While at their Scout shop, he did some calculating, and figured out what it would cost to pay for all the patches for the boys in the Pack. It came up to $120 Rand, which was around $20 US at the time. That was the best $20 US I spent on the whole trip. The woman there credited it to their account, and as the boys earned the patches, they would receive them.

I brought back plenty of patches, including all their Cub Scout (Cheetah, Leopard, Lion, Leaping Wolf, Link Badge) and Boy Scout rank awards, and made a framed display of them. (Trivia - what is the top rank award in South Africa, the equivalent of our Eagle?) Their uniforms and patches aren't as high of quality as ours, but their hats are extremely nice. Each Boy Scout unit can have their own baseball-style hat, embroidered on the front with their unit name and design (the Cubs wear the green beanies). The Scout's name is embroidered across the back, in fairly large letters. Gavin had hats from their unit (1st Bergvliet Sea Scouts) made up for me and my son, with our names across the back as well - a very nice gift! We also traided several neckerchiefs - Gavin had a very nice collection of them at his home. I also took a US BSA International neckerchief as a gift to their Council HQ - the one they had in their collection was very outdated. They had some pretty impressive B-P memorabilia there.

I took all this material - photos of the 2 Pack visits, patches, neckerchiefs, Kudu horn, books, hats, etc... - and produced a PowerPoint presentation with displays on the international brotherhood of Scouting, and the history, focusing on B-P's time in South Africa. The main point was to talk about where the idea for Scouting originated, and to let our Scouts know they were part of a international movement, with Scout brothers all over the world. I made this presentation to 3 Packs in our District.

I have no idea how much money or time I invested in my Ticket - that wasn't important to me. The final product or result was my focus, and at the end of the day, I was very pleased with the outcome. It was a great experience for me, and I wear my beads proudly. I wear them as a reminder that I must now earn them every day. The beading ceremony, which my father and my SM from my youth participated in, was not the end - it was a new beginning. If WB isn't a life-changing experience, then it was just a project. The lessons learned are to be applied day in and day out - new tickets developed and worked. WB'rs are some of the busiest people I know - because they know how to get things done.

 

[nldscout]

Since your not willing to even tell us what course number you were in, it leaves me to beleive exactly what I said before.

 

"Once a TROLL, always a TROLL"

[local1400]

While I don't always agree with BrianBufs', or anyone elses' posts for that matter, I think this forum is for ideas and to help each other ( I think that's in the scout oath, right?). Always remember the 12 points of the LAW. Scouts are courteous and kind, even to stupid ideas! And for you Brian, you seem to generate alot of controversy and it is very tiring. I want to come on this site and learn a fresh idea, or even an old one ( I like to recycle). I like neckerchiefs, I love them in fact. Just wear it and stop crying. You dont have to wear it all the time but you should be SETTING the example in your unit. If you are always looking for something to change, go work in a nursery or day care center!

[evmori]

Dang Brent, that sounds like a blast! Wish I coulda gone with you! Sounds like a lot more fun than a cruise!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

NE-V-120

Eagle Patrol

"I'm-a-talon you, we're the Eagles!"

[brianbuf]

ndlscout- that is so unfair.

 

Yep, I just magically know about "remeber the titans" and "october sky" or the beads or the tickets or gilwell or the turk heads waggle or all the other things I reference. Back to Gilwell just came to me in a dream! And all the patrol names.. I just thought up Buffalo!

Yes sirry bob... just a troll. never been to anything scouts. I just thought up the name woodbadge!

 

come on, get real.

 

Let me explain it this way... I live in a realitively tight knit community. I live and work and play and shop and run into people all day long and some are in scouting in leadership. I am very well known where I live and I just don't want anyone local to get hurt feelings because I am suggesting scouting look at itself to see if it needs to modernize.

 

Heck, I don't know any of you on these threads and I feel some of you cause bodily harm to me if we were to meet in a dark alley! A few of you have been down right rude. Just imagine if people I know and have assoicated with for many years might feel if it was preceived that I wanted to change the program they love? (Many forget that the program is not about what they love, it is about what will reach and teach boys!).

 

Heck no... call me a troll. But when they put that ax in the log withour course number... that is something I am not drapping before the world on these forums.

 

Instead of posting your course numbers, would all of you post your real name? Or is that an indication that once a troll, always a troll?