ambana Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 HI I HAVE A QUESTION ONE OF THE BOYS.IN MY SONS PACK IS UNABLE TO PAY HIS DUES.AND THE DEN LEADER SAID IF HE DOES NOT PAY.HE WILL BE UNABLE TO GET HIS AWARDS.THAT HE EARNED AT CAMP.I THINK IT IS UNFAIR.FOR HIM TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE.HIS FAMILY IS UNABLE TO PAY DUES.WHAT DO YOU THINK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambana Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 PLEASE WILL SOME ONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE.ON THIS TOPIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Does your Pack have anything in their bylaws that state if a Cub doesn't pay his dues he doesn't receive his awards? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Foot Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 In our troop it is written in the troop "Guide" that dues must be paid ever quarter. If the scout is unable to meet this obligation please contact the scoutmaster and or the troop CC. It also states that if the scout is more than 3 months behind we can not advance or attend any activity outside the regular troop meeting. This was put into place by the boys and with the advice of the scoutmaster and approval from the troop commettee. If it's not written as part the the troop operations then it is really not formal. In your cases it is best to discuss it with the SM....and or the CC. If too no avail bring it to the attention of the COR....they may not no this is in place...where ultamaltly they may be able to make some sort of change. If a scout can not pay...it should never be taken to such extent that the scout can't go on. Some sort of proof of finicial delimia and or understanding should be made between the parents and the troop if money is the problem. I just have a hard time when the parents drive up in new 4x4 trucks @ 40 thousand dollars each...crying they can't come up with his dues or campout money. (they probully can't it's in the vehicle's) It's up to each individual unit....if there's no working room...it maybe the wrong unit to be hooked up with...or the wrong leadership in place. We provide this information up front... we interview each scout and the parents, we let them know what we do, when we go, how we go, and what is expected from each parent and their scout. edited by Eagle Foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Are we talking Pack dues or Den dues? How much money is involved? We don't charge Pack dues, but I know that some do and they can get pretty pricey ($100+). The cost and any consequences from non-payment, including hardship alternatives (which there should always be), should have been discussed with all families at sign-up. Den dues are another thing altogether. I have charged a minimal amount ($7 per year) that helped cover supplies used. We never made a point of singleing out boys in front of the den who did not pay. A few reminder letters went home and after that it was dropped. Families never knew if there were some who did not pay den dues. None of their business. Most families helped out with stuff too. We always managed and the boys always had fun. The family should contact either the Cubmaster (Pack dues) or the Den Leader (Den dues) to see what can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 A money-earning pancake breakfast for the community will help pay for the needs of the pack, such as awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneHour Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 In our Pack, if a boy sold $x of popcorn or scout fair ticket, his recharter is paid for (including Pack dues)for the year. So if your Pack has a fundraiser or two and sufficient funding, you could go ahead and pay the boy's pack due and set a minimun fundraiser that he has to attain in order to pay the Pack back. Historically, I have paid for den dues, sleepover, lunches, dinners for a few of the boys in our Pack. I see them as no different than my own sons, but then that's just I. I am by no means wealthy, but to make a boy happy, it's worth a few $ out of my own pocket. Another instance where I asked for donations from several of the Den leaders to have enough for a boy to purchase his cub shirt, but as Eaglefoot pointed it, if the parents do have the means to pay for it, then I usually approach the parents. My usual explanation to them is that as in any team (baseball, soccer, etc) a cub scout's dues pay for his awards and all the logistic of running the cub scouting team. Usually, they get the hint. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 We have standing policy of our pack of picking up the costs for families that are in need. Our Council will do the same on an appropriate basis. If you can "certify" that the family is truly having hard times, then your committee can simply offer to carry this boy with Pack or Troop funds. One of the difficulties here is the determination of need. Is the family really in trouble, or is the kid playing football /baseball / soccer, and there is no more discretionary money left for scouting? And of course there is this.the boys went to camp! If there was money for camp why isnt there money for dues? Maybe its just timing, maybe not, or maybe he earned his camp money. Either way you need to ask a few more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 As I tell parents during our Roundup presentation, no boy is ever kept out of Scouting because of finances. As others have noted, there are resources available. But first consider that there may be more to the story than you know. We had a Webelos II den leader who refused to pay dues for her son with no real explaination (other than she couldn't stand the Cubmaster at the time). Her son received his Webelos and AoL badges (which our council provides at no cost) but the pack wouldn't pay for anything else (belt loops, activity pins, etc.) Every month the mom would show up at the pack meetings with a bag of awards she had purchased herself. That was more a case of stubborness than anything else. It's possible that there is more involved here than simply financial need. Secondly, unless you are the pack treasurer, committee chairman, COR, maybe the boy's den leader (or perhaps parent?), I'm not sure why you have this information. Whether or not a family can pay dues should be a confidential matter. Third, there are resources available, as others have noted. I've got a boy in that situation now. Since he is a Webelos (and a BIG Webelos at that)our brother troop gave him a uniform out of their uniform closet. The pack is willing to waive the activity dues ($40) and I'm talking to our DE about to find out what the council can do, hopefully cover the registration fee and Boys Life. There's is one person in the council who handles this and I'm waiting to hear from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Ambana, First, PLEASE DO NOT SHOUT ON THIS FORUM! Second, an easy solution would be for you to step up and pay this boys dues. You can work out arrangements with the boy and his family about reimbursement or "indentured servitude" (i.e. have the boy work them off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 The units I have been involved with, or known of the inner workings of, have all had some way of dealing with the boy whose family is TRULY unable to pay. Of course there are always the issue of whether the family IS truly unable, but the person who started the thread said the boy was "unable," so let's assume that is the case. In the troop I am involved with now, one of the members of the CO (referred to, when there is a need to refer in committee meetings, as the "anonymous parishioner"; the CC, SM and past holders of those positions know who it is, but I do not) is willing and able to provide (and has in fact provided) funds to allow boys to participate when the family cannot pay. (My impression is that it probably someone who had a son in the troop years ago, but it could be someone who just wants to help the youth of the community.) It is my understanding that this assistance could potentially be for any amount up to and including summer camp (about $200.) This is all handled through the CC or SM. I don't think anyone has ever asked for the usual $10 for a weekend camping trip. There is one family that has made it known that they are currently unable to come up with the $35 annual dues this year, and they have been (quietly) told not to worry about it, pay what they can, when they can, and let the troop be a place where the boy can not worry about his family's financial problems, which are all too apparent to him and others. I don't even think the troop leadership went to the "parishioner" on the $35 dues, they just decided that the troop treasury will absorb it. I also know that 2 boys (including the 1 mentioned above) did go to summer camp this year, either for free or for a very reduced amounts (let's say a 90 percent discount), thanks to the "parishioner. I also am certain that if, as a matter of last resort, let's say the "parishioner" did not exist and the troop had a bad year fund-raising and could not "carry" a non-payer, money (within reason, say the annual dues) would just magically appear, and a few committee members would happen to go to one less movie each that particular month. As far as I know, it has not happened. Obviously, not all units have the resources we have, either in terms of an anonymous benefactor, or sufficient fund-raising to be able to "carry" a non-dues-payer or two with no impact on the program. But I also know there are some council resources available though donations that have been made, though my impression is that these are for bigger-ticket items starting with summer camp, on up to at least partial funding for a Philmont trek or Jamboree trip for truly needy boys. I also know that in a past unit, the local Lions Club (which was not the CO) was there when necessary. The point is, as others have said, there should be SOME way of dealing with this, other than the way it is apparently being dealt with now. Maybe the den leader in this case is inexperienced himself and does not know about this aspect of Scouting. I don't think they teach you in training about the "generosity" that surrounds Scouting, it is just something you pick up along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Money is such a pain. You haven't given any details about the family or how much money is involved or needed. While many of us have had times taken money out of our pockets. This really is not the answer. I do not like the word discriminate. I would love to buy a new BMW. At this time it isn't in my budget and Her That Must Be Obeyed would kill me. Still I don't think that the BMW company is disseminating against me. Sad as it might seem when we are dealing with money we have to put emotions aside. I know nothing about this boy or his family. If the family needs money I know of lots of people who need odd jobs done that they would gladly pay the going rate for. If the boy is old enough, I feel sure that there are people who will let him wash their car or pull weeds at more then the going rate. While our family is not rich, we do have a few bucks. Still my son is expected to earn half the cost of all his outings, some of which are not cheap. I am not in favor of handouts. I don't think that we ever want to teach our youth that not paying your way is OK, and "It's alright someone else will pay". To my way of thinking this stinks. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajuncody Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Hi and welcome to the group. You have come to the right place for answers or speculation. I am new here also but have at least one year of den leader experience and I am getting ready to move up to Cub Master next year. I will offer you my advice but others here may have better opinions. First on a side note typing in all caps is considered yelling. It is hard on the eyes and in some net groups it is as rude as slamming another member. Now, on to business. If I were in that pack my answer would be the pack fundraiser. If a child 's family couldn't come out of pocket with the correct amount of dues I would just ask that family to lead the way with the fundraiser. We had one child last year who couldn't pay the dues but sold over 500.00 worth of popcorn and 8 boxes of candy bars. I feel that he more than paid his share. We also allow payments on dues. Our pack dues are 30.00. We will take two at 15.00 or three at 10.00, or if need be we will take six at 5.00 or thirty at 1.00. It is all the same as long as he dues are paid in full by the end of the year. I hope I have helped. My pack is in Rural Tn and we are accustomed to dealing with the "financially challenged" families. In reality, with some help from this group I am getting ready to start a uniform closet {donated used uniforms} for the cubs without uniforms. Kristi in TN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGreyEagle Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Please reply to the thread "child unable to pay dues" (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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