Medical Forms

[Bob White]

In the case of the physical forms for high adventure as well as summer camp, those forms are given to licensed medical professionals who have been trained to understand the information on those forms. Camps keep those forms in secured areas with restricted access, not just lying around in a three ring notebook.

 

After that they are not used unless...there is a medical need. Justas they should be secure and confidential in a unit situation and not viewed until..there is a medical need.

 

Ed, As I explained you can simply talk with the parent to get non-confidential information that you might need to create a healthy envirnment for the scout.

 

Milk for a broken leg? Where in creation did you get your first aid training. And you mean to tell us that a boy scout doesn't know if he is lactose intolerant? Do you really expect him to request milk? Really Ed!

 

Bob White

[evmori]

"Milk for a broken leg? Where in creation did you get your first aid training. And you mean to tell us that a boy scout doesn't know if he is lactose intolerant? Do you really expect him to request milk? Really Ed!"

 

Read the post, Bob! What I posted was the Scout asks for something to drink & you give him milk & he has an allergic reaction because he is lactose intolerant! And why did you give him milk? Because you didn't read the medical form that states he IS lactose intolerant.

 

"Camps keep those forms in secured areas with restricted access, not just lying around in a three ring notebook."

 

My Troop also keeps a copy with us at all times in case we need them. I think most Troops do. And as for my Troop & probably the vast majority of Troops, these forms are kept in a safe & secure place on camping trips.

 

And as someone else has posted, these medical forms were given to the Troop by the parents. I don't think those parents want us to just file them away without looking them over to ensure they are complete & to make sure we are aware of any special conditions their son has.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[frank10]

I keep seeing the idea of my rights come up in a few topics. Try this one on for size...

 

Either do it my way or find some one else to take your kid to camp.

 

Because it's my right to feel comfortable with my situation or I can just stay home and sleep in my one bed like most of the parents do.

 

(flame away)

[Bob White]

Now Ed think about this fairy tell you are offering us.

 

You want us to believe that the scout is unaware that he cannot drink milk?

 

Or you want us to believe that a parent would not tell you that the scout cannot have milk products if you were to ask them if there were any health conditions you should be aware of?

 

Or that you read each medical form prior to meals for each scout?

 

Cause you know Ed, once the scout has the milk, you reading the medical sheet will not change or improve his condition.

 

By the way Ed you never asked where I learned this "unusual" practice.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

 

[Owl62]

I had no idea that by posting a relatively simple question about BSA medical forms that such a debate would result.

 

While I appreciate everyone's input, and with all due respect, as far as I can tell, no one has provided an official answer to my question.

 

While the Guide to Safe Scouting addresses general information about the medical forms, and the fact that Den Leaders, Scoutmasters, Team Coaches, and Crew Advisors (please carefully note those SPECIFIC position titles) should review the forms for YOUTH members, there is nothing there about the general handling, storage, security and privacy of the information on the forms is not addressed. I can find nothing on who should be permitted to access the medical forms for adults.

 

If the BSA does not have an official policy on the privacy of the medical forms, it should. And I think that there are state or federal laws that do address this, even if they are BSA forms.

 

Generally speaking, health information must be maintained as private and only those with a need to know should have access to or read the forms. And generally there are maintenance requirements for medical forms. I do not think that the BSA is exempt from legal requirements relating to medical information.

 

We often surrender medical forms with all kinds of personal information on them, without knowing who will access them, or how they will be maintained. And sometimes, after we submit the forms, they are not even returned. What happens to those forms? Is there not anyone else concerned about this? I for one want to see the actual policy if one exists and if one does not, I think it should.

 

I think what I will do is contact someone in the national office about this and try to get an official answer.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

OWL,

Here is what the Guide to safe scouting says is the reason for having health forms.

 

"It is recommended that unit leaders have a complete medical history and permission slip for every participant attending each Scouting activity. The medical history form and permission slip, in most cases, will allow emergency medical treatment to a youth member in case of injury or illness when a parent or guardian cannot be contacted"

 

Nowhere that I know of does the BSA have an official policy on handling the forms.

 

My training came from a physician who was the head of the Emergency Medical Services at a large midwest hospital. He is an Eagle Scout, Asst. Scoutmaster, Medical Director of the council's summer camp and, was a member of the council executive committee.

 

So the suggestion I gave you has some pretty strong authority behind it. I would bet that for many leaders what they do in this matter comes from past habits that were never challenged before.

 

Best of luck,

Bob White

 

[Twocubdad]

Actually, Bob, that's what the G2SS says specifically in relation to High-Adventure medical form, which are Class 3 and include the results of a physician's exam.

 

What the guide says about Class 1 forms, which cover most routine activities, is that the forms were established to "provide youth members and adult leaders a better understanding of their physical capabilities." And, "Den leaders, Scoutmasters, team coaches, and crew Advisors should review these and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of the youth members in their unit. Forms must be updated annually. They are filled out by participants and kept on file for easy reference."

 

But of course you know that since it has been repeated in this thread about four times and each time you've chosen not to address it. Why?

[Fat Old Guy]

" And you mean to tell us that a boy scout doesn't know if he is lactose intolerant?"

 

Actually, I've known more than a few young people who aren't aware of their medical conditions. They just know that mom gives them medicine.

 

I recall sitting in my aunt's kitchen one afternoon, BSing with my cousins while drinking milk and eating cookies. Somehow, ailments came up and my cousin said, "I have asthma." His mother said, "What? Where'd you get that idea?" Cuz said, "my nose runs and you make me take those pills." "No," said my aunt, "you have allergies." "Oh, what's the difference?" We were 15 or 16 at the time.

 

I had a friend in college who had open heart surgery when he was an infant but his parents had never fully explained why he had the big scar on his chest until he was 20.

 

Kids don't always know, either because they never cared enough or thier parents were trying to protect them.

 

 

[Bob White]

Again Twocub, at no time have I said that the leader should not know the neeeds of the scout, only that there is no need or right to all the information in a medidcal history or physical. And, that the families have a right to confidentiality with that information.

 

Look again, the paragraph I shared follows the High Adventure paragraph but refers to ALL scout activities, not just high adventure.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

" And I think that there are state or federal laws that do address this, even if they are BSA forms. "

 

Like HIPPA, most laws regarding the confidentiality of medical records only effect professionals in a professional environment.

[eisely]

Trying to address the original question, my understanding of BSA policy about storage of forms is the same as BW's. Namely, BSA national offers no real rules. Clearly common sense indicates that any medical information is highly confidential and should be made available to adult leaders, medical personnel, and possibly even other scouts, on a need to know basis. Many troops do keep these in a central file, and frankly I think that is a highly effective way of doing business. This is where I part company with BW on this issue.

 

Having current medical forms in a central file saves no end of headaches and ensures that the information is available before any outing begins.

 

Out council high adventure team recommends that two copies of all forms, carried separately by two different adults, be taken along on all treks. I always put the forms in a zip lock bag for a trek. At the end of the trek, if the forms I have been carrying are duplicates, I often destroy them, or return them to the parents. Our troop does not have a central file, and consequently dealing with these things is often more of a headache than it should be.

 

I also disagree strongly with BW's view on whether or not leaders should review the content of the forms. I have always understood that to be part of my responsibility as a trek leader. I want to know what is going on with the people on my trek. I also brief the other adult on the trek who may be carrying a set of forms if there are issues with any participant.

 

I do not look at the forms out of idle curiousity, but because I believe that I have a genuine need to know, so I can more responsibly perform my duties as an adult leader. I do not want to get caught in the kind of situation described in an early post in this thread where important information was withheld by the parents of a boy, or I did not make sensible use of the information that was provided to me.

[Bob White]

Eisley,

Thank you for addressing this calmy and politely.

There are just a few things I would like to respond to.

 

I never said that the forms should not be stored in a central file where they can be accessed easily when needed.

 

I agree that the Leader needs to know the needs of the scout, but only those things that the parents feel is needed for you to know.

 

You might not read the forms out of curiosity but there are some who would, both youth and adult. You have a responsibility to take evry measure to protect that information. An open file hardly meets that responsibility.

 

If your goal is to know the needs of the scout you can do that by talking to the parents.

 

If you are only going to use the forms as they are intended then why is keeping them in individual envelopes a problem?

 

Bob White

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Everyone is still ignoring the fact that the policy treats the Class 1 information (completed by a parent, asking for very broad, basic questions) differently from the Class 2 & 3 forms which are completed by a physician and contain the results of the physician's physical exam.

 

Unfortunatly, BSA doesn't provide much guidance in dealing with the Class 2 & 3 froms. My only experience with them has been for the adults attending resident camp who are over 40 and are required to have a Class 3 physical. Frankly, I'm not comfortable having that level of personal information. But it is my responsibility to review the forms. I make it a point to only scan the form for completeness, to make sure it is signed by a physician, and check those items which appear on the Class 1 form without focusing on the personal information. They are then sealed in an envelope which and kept or one of the other leaders while at camp. All the adult leaders know where the forms are kept and can easily access them if needed.

 

However, the policy regarding Class 1 forms is clear that we have a responsibility to review the Class 1 forms and be knowledgeable of our Scout's medical needs. Bob, you may choose to ingnore or gloss over that requirement, but you do so at your own peril. Violating a direct BSA policy could make you, your CO and other leaders in your unit legally liable if something happened to one of your Scouts. In that case you may not be afforded the protection of BSA insurance and legal defense. Violating the policy could also result in the revocation of your BSA membership. But ultimately the decision is yours.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Twocubdad]

In thinking about it, in the future I'm going to ask everyone for a Class 1, which we will review and keep handy. If Class 2 or 3 forms are required, I'll ask that it be completed in addition to the Class 1 form and placed in a sealed envelope and stapled to the Class 1 form. That sounds to me like a good compromise between providing the unit with a reasonable amount of information and protecting the individuals' privacy.

[KoreaScouter]

TwoCub:

 

That's exactly what we do. New Class 1's every year at recharter time, in the flourescent 3-ring binder, in the clear sleeve for that member, along with his Class 2 or 3 if he went or is going to summer camp, on a 50-miler, or over to Maui for something or other. I keep the book, it goes on all outings, the leaders always know where it is, and nobody messes with it. When I took the SM gig here, I reviewed all the forms, learned where my issues were, and am in the book only when I need to be. Frankly, BW's method wouldn't work for us here -- one-on-one interviews with 45 parents is a non-starter for reasons I won't bore you with. Plus, from a time management standpoint, I have just the same 24 in a day that you do -- full time job that turns into overtime every time some nut sets off a bomb. And, I gotta be a husband to the long-suffering but supremely understanding Mrs. KS, a daddy to my 10-year old GS daughter (here's a picture, ain't she adorable?), a dad to my teenage Scout son, and an Alpha male to Maxwell the wonder dog. With the few hours left over for Scouting, I prefer to spend them in direct contact with my Scouts, rather than interviewing their parents for information that's already on the forms they filled out. Call me selfish.

 

We must be blessed with wonderfully understanding parents, too, because none have raised an issue with what we ask for, how we store/handle it, or who has access to it. If you've got those parental issues in your unit, you may need to deal with them through different info management methods -- you gotta be responsive to the situation in front of you.

 

KS