Medical Forms

[Bob White]

FOG again you abandon honesty for effect. My point has been consistent. An individuals medical information is confidential and a safe scouting program can be delivered without fulfilling your curiosity about an individuals health history. All it takes is communicating with parents and following the safety guidelines. Good leadership makes it possible to respect peoples privacy.

 

Owl's question was on the handling and storage of medical forms, my recommendation is in a sealed envelope until such time as the information is needed by medical professionals. It is courteous, sound and proven advice.

 

Why would you not want to be able to lead a scouting program in a way that protects the scouts privacy and his well being at the same time? What would make these two goals mutually exclusive?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

Bob White, still demonstrating that the Scout Law doesn't apply to him.

 

Mr. White, your statements are patently absurd as my example that you called unrealistic points out. You consistently say "X" and when others point out that "X" is flawed, you reply, "I really meant Y with X as the foundation."

 

You said that the envelopes should only be opened by trained and licensed health care professionals. That precludes the SM from opening it when help is two hours away. That precludes letting a police officer or park ranger open it. That even precludes the Troop First Aider form opening it.

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Never heard of a Troop First Aider. Do mean only one of your scouts is competent in first aid?

 

Lets take FOG's example that help is two hours away the scout has fallen and broken his leg. you look in his medical file to see what? That he had his tonsils out three years ago? That he is prone to hay fever? That he is allergic to penicillin? Had you planned to administer penicillin to him? Oh wait he had a tetnus shot last year well at least you won't have to give him that on the way th the hospital. Oh look! He has a histoty of bladder infection, and he is nearsighted. HMMM does that mean you use a splint?

 

Thank goodness we had that form handy.

 

 

You know it is a funny thing that the situations I can show where the privacy can be maintained are real, but the situations you present where you say they cannot be are all fantasized.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

"Lets take FOG's example that help is two hours away the scout has fallen and broken his leg. you look in his medical file to see what?"

 

Ah, Bob White. Twisting the truth again.

 

So an insulin reaction is a fantasy? Very interesting?

 

Troop First Aider? Maybe that's a Girl Scout term that slipped it but it refers to the adult who is certified in first aid.

 

 

 

[Bob White]

You only have ONE adult trained in first aid?

[Be_Prepared]

This thread has followed an all too predictable pattern. Someone asks what time it is. A response is written as to how to build a watch. Further discussion and debate ensues on digital watches vs. analog watches, concluding with whether Baden Powell prefered a leather or a metal watchband

 

As to the poster's original question. No. There is no official policy, other than how a prudent individual, in your community, would store forms. Due to the sensitive nature of medical forms, an inherent assumption is made on the part of the scout, parent and leader that the information will be kept in a closed or shielded container, so that a casual observer would not see the information. In addition, an assumption is made that medical information is on a "need to know basis"

 

This brings us to the crux of the discussion: Who can and should view the forms. As has been pointed out, the GTSS addresses this in several areas:

 

Medical History:

Den leaders, Scoutmasters, team coaches, and crew Advisors should review these and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of the youth members in their unit

 

Aquatic Safety:

Require evidence of fitness for swimming activity with a complete health history from physician, parent, or legal guardian. The adult supervisor should adjust all supervision, discipline, and protection to anticipate any potential risks associated with individual health conditions.

 

Sports and Activities:

For youth participants in any potentially strenuous activity, the supervisor should receive a complete health history from a health-care professional, parent, or guardian. The supervisor should adjust all supervision, discipline, and protection to anticipate potential risks associated with individual health conditions

 

The class I and II forms both contain areas for listing restrictions ( both behavioral and physical) that would limit activities, and is designed to highlight and prevent potential medical problems.

 

Yes, Medical forms should be reviewed, to design and run a program anticipating potential risks.

 

In addition, a medical emergency is no time to find out that a consent form has not been signed, is illegible, or is missing information.

 

Be Prepared

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Excellent post, BP. Welcome to the campfire. The value of the forms medical forms is not in responding to emergencies, but in planning appropriate activities. The detailed exam results of the boy with the hypothetical broken leg are not important, but I do need to know that he has a degenerative bone disorder and shouldn't be involved in contact sports.

 

Unless all your parents attend every event, or your permission slips are written by a doctor and reviewed by an attorney, parents are not going to know every little detail of an activity on which to judge its suitability for their son. You say hike, meaning 10 miles a day at altitude with loaded packs, they assume an hour or so wandering around the local park. Even if you think you've explained things well, how do you know you've covered the bases? In the above example, how do you account for a pick-up game of capture the flag which wasn't on the original schedule? Do you really want to rely on an 11-year-old's judgement not being clouded by the fun of the moment and the need to fit in?

 

Granted, it's not a perfect world and you're never going to be able to anticipate every situation. But with a little knowledge of you Scouts' health, you are in a much better position to help the parent evaluate the boys participation. The parent knows their son's health and has some understanding of the program. You know the program and need some understanding of the boy's health. Either of you working in the dark compromises safety.

 

And frankly, whether you acknowledge it or not, even you bury the medical forms in the sand, you still "delve into the Scout's personal medical history" at some level. What is it you are communicating with the parents about? What's the difference in a parent communicating medical information in a conversation versus including the same info on a form? You are counting on a parent to volunteer in causal conversation that their son has a condition which may limit his participation in an activity they are unfamiliar with? What's wrong with having a formal procedure for the parents' to communicate that information to the unit?

 

As a parent, I don't see anything on the Class 1 form which would raise privacy concerns. If my son has a condition -- especially if it is or could be life-threatening -- I want the leaders to know about it. It is only prudent that it be in writing. As a leader, I don't need or care to know all the details of a Scout's medical condition. But it is similarly prudent that I have a basic understanding of his limitations and the situations which may cause him problems.

 

It also seems to me that the fact that parents have submitted a medical form creates the expectation that you have reviewed it and are aware of its contents. Do you make clear to your parents that all the medical forms are sealed and that any information they want you to know needs to be communicated to you independently?

 

Lastly, I still want to hear how you reconcile you position with the bold-type policy that "Scoutmasters (et. al.) review these (forms) and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of youth members of their unit."

[Bob White]

Welcome to the 'discusion' Be_Prepared, you build a pretty intricate watch yourself.

 

I would like to ask about the last point you made. Do you really know of a situation where having a signed consent form for emergency treatment meant anything. Having discused with with a number of physicians from different states they all have said the same thing. If it is an emergency amd the patients life or limb is at stake the physician is required to give aid. If the patients life or limb is not at stake the physician will take no action until he or she has spoken to a parent or legal guardian with or without a signed release.

 

I have to say that my few occasions to make use of profession aid while scouting has proven this out 100% of the time.

 

Why is this release so common? I can only guess that releases are written by lawyers and they do what they are taught to do, and medical care is given by physicians and they do what they are taught to do.

 

Bob White

(Maker of fine watches for over 40 years)

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Okay, Bob, I'm beginning to feel ignored here. I won't play the "You're Not Answering My Question" game and them make you guess which one of 20 questions I'm referring to. I'll politely ask it again: How do you reconcile your position with the bold-type policy that "Scoutmasters (et. al.) review these (forms) and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of youth members of their unit."

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"I would like to ask about the last point you made. Do you really know of a situation where having a signed consent form for emergency treatment meant anything."

 

We had a boy go to the hospital for stitches this summer. The adult had the signed forms in hand and the doctor stitched up the lacerated member. No fuss, no muss.

 

"You only have ONE adult trained in first aid?"

 

Most of our adults have had the basic first aid for scout leaders but that isn't a very in depth course. However, we have a couple of leaders who have extensive first aid training, one of them has the troop first aid kit on any outing.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"Okay, Bob, I'm beginning to feel ignored here."

 

I'm just astounded that there is actually a BSA policy that Bob White doesn't follow. Maybe there is hope for him yet. Maybe he just disagrees with it because Ed and I follow it.

[Bob White]

You can easily review the form with each parent without needing to see every entry. There are only certain fields on that form that affect your ability to provide a safe and healthy environment for the scout. You can simply ask the parents aif there is information in that area that feel needs to shared with you. If they say there isn't then there isn't.

 

I'm not saying a parent cannot give you permission to look at personl health informataion. I'm saying they are not required to and you and others are not free to look.

 

Many units keep the information in a notebook where nearly any curiosity seeker can look.

 

That's a bad idea.

 

Many leaders still hold and distribute meds, A horrible idea.

 

Many feel they have a "right" to a childs personal information. Just shy of an ego trip.

 

We have the responsibility to lead good programs and create environments where scouts can reasonably be safe. Medical forms are for emergencies and until that emergency happens there is no good reson why that information cannot be surpressed from view.

 

Ask the parents if the scout has any health conditions that you need to be aware of in order to keep him safe and healthy during an adventurous outdoor program.

 

Tell them if the scout is taking meds that he or a parent/guardian are responsible for storage and administration of the nmedication, and to let you know if this is a problem.

 

Tell them you need a complete and current health history and review the form with them when you give it to them.

 

Tell them that this information will be kept confidential unless required for emergency medical attention.

 

When you collect the form ask them again if there are any restrictions or medical needs you need to be aware of. If they say no then take the envelop and put in in the emergency file.

 

There is no need for you to read it, you just reviewed it. If it makes you feel beter to ask them if you can read it go ahead and ask. Just be aware the parent is within their rights to say "no".

 

Bob White

 

 

[evmori]

Medical History:

Den leaders, Scoutmasters, team coaches, and crew Advisors should review these and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of the youth members in their unit.

 

What is unclear here? If we need to be knowledgable of the medical needs of the Scouts in our unit, then knowing what is on their medical form is part of being knowledgable! Asking the parents is being knowledgable! Asking the Scout is being knowledgable! All are necessary!

 

And I don't feel this way, Bob, because I feel I need to be in control.

 

The safety of the scouts in my unit is very important to me. Knowing if they require medication or anything else is part of their safety.

 

In Fat Old Guys example you missed one thing. What if the Scout with a broken leg is allergic to milk products & you decide to give him a glass of milk when he asks for a drink? Think their might be a problem?

 

It's not about being controlling or needing to know everything. It's about the Scout's safety. Not knowing could put that in peril.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[Be_Prepared]

In response to the consent form question.

 

You are correct. Emergency care is given to all. The consent section also applies to non emergency, or immediate follow-on emergency care. In addition, the consent section protects the leader for their decisions. My personal knowledge of exceptions to this is not the issue. Reading the form is.

 

In addition to consenting to emergency care, the Class 1 form consent section gives permission to fully participate in BSA activities, subject to noted limitations. These limitations can only be discovered by reading the form. A parent/guardian should be comfortable with the knowledge that, after signing this, the limitations will be noted and observed; and a scout will not be put in a dangerous situation. This is the basis of the G2SS.

 

Should a form be turned in, with exceptions noted, and those instructions not followed due to not reading - one could argue that bordered on negligence

[evmori]

"Many leaders still hold and distribute meds, A horrible idea."

 

Why? I've been going to summer camp for over 15 years and one of the registered adult leaders ALWAYS holds & distributes meds. Why? To make sure the Scouts take them!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10