The BSA with no rank advancement

[King Ding Dong]

I see the same issues with the Cubs and advancement too. Drives me crazy to give these awards to boys that I can tell didn't do their best.... or I'm pretty sure in some cases that the parent signed them off late one evening after they were in bed, just because they did this or that once..... maybe last year or the year before.....

A personal regret I have is not continuing with Scouting as a boy.... I made it through cubs and quit after the first year or so in the troop......so to that end I'll push my son.... scratch that, GUIDE him....but only so far. I gave into the peer pressure that scouting wasn't cool, but I think if I'd had someone encouraging and guiding me, AND I'd not been so shy and made better friends in scouting, maybe I would have.....

I'd like to join you Basement, desert, and veni for that drink.......

Just don't leave camp for that drink. I got slapped around pretty good for bringing that idea up.

[Stosh]

Historically the top rank of BSA was First Class. For me FC means the boy has mastered enough of the basics to be able to go out and do outdoor activities with enough knowledge to get him back home on time. He can hike, camp, cook, do first aid, swim, etc. so that he's not a burden on his buddies. He may even have more than enough skills to actually help out his buddies if they need it.

 

With that being said, Star to Eagle is merely icing on the cake. MB's, projects and leadership development. Fine, but not a driving force to keep the wheels of scouting on the road. There's enough training for leadership development long before they get to FC anyway. Unfortunately the policy for most is to rush through those early requirements, demonstrating, but never mastering the skills necessary to be self-sufficient in the out-of-doors. So what do we end up with? Eagle Scouts that can't start a campfire or cook a meal for his patrol. He looks to the adults to bail him out when someone gets hurt. and the list goes on and on... and on. Early scouting tradition identified such boys as parlor scouts. Well, today we have a ton of them. It is really a good thing that adults are always present with these boys when they are out camping, because they are totally not prepared to do it on their own. Seriously, we are running a babysitting service because we have not taught our boys to actually, and practically, grow up to a modicum level of self-sufficiency.

 

If TF -> FC were a curriculum of material to be mastered before heading out on a trek rather than a pencil-whipped check in a book, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Basement hit it on the head. BE PREPARED to deal with any and all crisis that come your way.

 

As far as your reaction to the first scenario, I would not have said anything. Was this FC scout doing a safety audit on the NSP? Just a gentle reminder to have a personal first aid kit handy, not in the bottom of their pack. As one who works closely with safety personnel where I work, there is no such thing as too much safety and audits are way to make sure all your people are prepared. What I am assuming happened in the first scenario was you shut down any safety leadership incentive that FC scout may have been developing. We talk a lot about patrol competitions, here you have an older boy coming over and giving an ad hoc challenge on an important issue, personal safety. If the day comes when you are complaining about the older boys not wanting to work with the younger boys, well, here's your answer to the problem. Personally, if I had stepped in on that situation (where I didn't really belong, but felt a strong need to defend the new guys) I would apologize to the FC scout and mentor him in developing a safety program where he not only challenges the NSP, but any and all patrols at the drop of a hat. Put the Instructor POR patch on him and he becomes the first aid/safety instructor that fills his free time with a useful purpose interacting with the other patrols. If he does it out of a concern for the welfare of others, I can see him fitting nicely into the SPL position without a whole lot of discussion.

 

Second scenario, the adults were too quick to take away a good opportunity for the boys. If a boy gets hurt, whose responsibility to care for him? His PL! That's his job. The parent stepped in and took over the PL's POR. A burn is not life-threatening, it's not the end of the world and if proper care is given by the PL everything would have turned out well with NO ADULT involvement. The only thing I would add to Basement's comment was if he didn't know what to do (Star scout? Really?) talk to his PL. If a Star scout can't figure out what to do for a simple burn, chances are he blew through the T->FC requirements way too fast and is well on his way to being a great "Parlor Eagle Scout."

 

By the way, did you do a follow up with the boy to make sure mamma kissed it when he got home after the campout?

 

I know it runs against every fiber in your personality to let the boys do it because you can do it better, but when will the boys ever learn if you keep taking away their opportunities by interfering?

 

If life-threatening, adults step in in a heartbeat. If not, sit back and rely on the training you have given them.

[King Ding Dong]

Historically the top rank of BSA was First Class. For me FC means the boy has mastered enough of the basics to be able to go out and do outdoor activities with enough knowledge to get him back home on time. He can hike, camp, cook, do first aid, swim, etc. so that he's not a burden on his buddies. He may even have more than enough skills to actually help out his buddies if they need it.

 

With that being said, Star to Eagle is merely icing on the cake. MB's, projects and leadership development. Fine, but not a driving force to keep the wheels of scouting on the road. There's enough training for leadership development long before they get to FC anyway. Unfortunately the policy for most is to rush through those early requirements, demonstrating, but never mastering the skills necessary to be self-sufficient in the out-of-doors. So what do we end up with? Eagle Scouts that can't start a campfire or cook a meal for his patrol. He looks to the adults to bail him out when someone gets hurt. and the list goes on and on... and on. Early scouting tradition identified such boys as parlor scouts. Well, today we have a ton of them. It is really a good thing that adults are always present with these boys when they are out camping, because they are totally not prepared to do it on their own. Seriously, we are running a babysitting service because we have not taught our boys to actually, and practically, grow up to a modicum level of self-sufficiency.

 

If TF -> FC were a curriculum of material to be mastered before heading out on a trek rather than a pencil-whipped check in a book, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Jblake thanks for your comments. Good advise.

 

In this case the scout was not conducting a safety audit, just being lazy. He is also allowed to sleep solo in his own tent. Can't cite the source but IIRC that is not advised.

 

I saw the same thing this past weekend on the bike trip. A not very active in the troop older scout attended the bike campout for 1night/day only with his mom. Not sure of her position currently but she had a uniform with some bling. She allowed him to set up his tent in the parking lot IN THE BED OF A PICKUP! Away from the 2 patrols. Fortunately the park rangers came by and nixed that plan. I was racking my brain for an ecological reason, but turns out it was to keep vagrants out of the park. Still don't think he had to move to the patrol camp. Sigh.

 

One more thing to add to my list of stuff wrong with this troop. Not ready to stand up and start demanding changes yet, I am still new to the troop. I am mentioning my observations to the CC.

[blw2]

I see the same issues with the Cubs and advancement too. Drives me crazy to give these awards to boys that I can tell didn't do their best.... or I'm pretty sure in some cases that the parent signed them off late one evening after they were in bed, just because they did this or that once..... maybe last year or the year before.....

A personal regret I have is not continuing with Scouting as a boy.... I made it through cubs and quit after the first year or so in the troop......so to that end I'll push my son.... scratch that, GUIDE him....but only so far. I gave into the peer pressure that scouting wasn't cool, but I think if I'd had someone encouraging and guiding me, AND I'd not been so shy and made better friends in scouting, maybe I would have.....

I'd like to join you Basement, desert, and veni for that drink.......

Last year I watched at one of the last den meetings of the year, as the DL sat down with several of the moms and went through their books signing off on stuff...... then they went through through the belt loop book......

 

"Sure, little billy knows how to swim"... "Safe Swim Defense, what's that?".... ah, that doesn't matter......

"He played volleyball at a family picnic last year".....

[Stosh]

Historically the top rank of BSA was First Class. For me FC means the boy has mastered enough of the basics to be able to go out and do outdoor activities with enough knowledge to get him back home on time. He can hike, camp, cook, do first aid, swim, etc. so that he's not a burden on his buddies. He may even have more than enough skills to actually help out his buddies if they need it.

 

With that being said, Star to Eagle is merely icing on the cake. MB's, projects and leadership development. Fine, but not a driving force to keep the wheels of scouting on the road. There's enough training for leadership development long before they get to FC anyway. Unfortunately the policy for most is to rush through those early requirements, demonstrating, but never mastering the skills necessary to be self-sufficient in the out-of-doors. So what do we end up with? Eagle Scouts that can't start a campfire or cook a meal for his patrol. He looks to the adults to bail him out when someone gets hurt. and the list goes on and on... and on. Early scouting tradition identified such boys as parlor scouts. Well, today we have a ton of them. It is really a good thing that adults are always present with these boys when they are out camping, because they are totally not prepared to do it on their own. Seriously, we are running a babysitting service because we have not taught our boys to actually, and practically, grow up to a modicum level of self-sufficiency.

 

If TF -> FC were a curriculum of material to be mastered before heading out on a trek rather than a pencil-whipped check in a book, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

In the back of my mind, I assumed the older scout was just screwing around. With that being said, fore go the apology but tap into his actions as something to be developed. "Assume" he had good intentions and that it was a good idea. If he has a bit of lazy free-time, you might be able to channel it into some kind of constructive activity instead. A lot of these kinds of kids respond well when the feedback they get is positive. Kids are looking for attention, if it's positive, that's great, but if no adult really cares, the negative attention is a satisfying backup.

 

On this other older boy, it is obvious the only reason he's there is because his bling-ladened mother is forcing him to be. It's an uphill battle, but someone needs to sit him down and call him out to either pee or get off the pot. One way or the other. A scout is honest and if he's not honest with his mother all he's really doing is wasting the resources of the adults that could be put to better use with the boys that are interested.

 

If he decides to get involved with the troop, welcome him with open arms, make a spot for him, and help him assimilate. If not, it's time to be honest with the mother if the boy isn't going to.

 

I use a lot of the Peter Principle's dynamics of Creative Incompetence when working with my boys. I ask a lot of "stupid" questions such as, "Why would anyone want to be part of a group and then make every effort to get/stay out of it?" "Isn't it kinda difficult to get to know the boys when you're camping 8 sites down the road?" "How are you going to know when lunch is when you're camped so far away?" Nothing in those statements/questions are confrontational, but are designed to have the boy evaluate the situation on his own on his own terms, and conclude, the question may be stupid, but my reason for doing what I'm doing is even more stupid.

 

Also if you are new to the scene and are SM, the last thing you need to be doing is standing up and demanding changes. As a servant leader, focus on helping the current boy leadership evaluate the situation and mentor/assist them in standing up and demanding changes. Often time all they need is an adult mentor that gives them the permission to do so. If these boys are constantly used to having to watch over their shoulders because some adult is hovering, they will never break out of their following and get out and lead. No one wants to be a target, but if you're only comment is a repeated, "Sounds like it might work, why don't you give it a try and see what happens." Once you empower the boys with the responsibility to lead AND AUTHORITY to lead, they will do some really good things for the troop. Your role is to mentor, assist, offer advise and enable youth leaders. Give them opportunities, not demands and rules.

[Kudu]

 

When I was a teenager, my best friend's parents bought a Dairy Queen franchise. The very first thing the corporate trainer taught us? Always use the term "product" instead of "ice cream."

 

By law, soft serve is not ice cream, in the same way that (in the absence of a free market) the BSA's "product" is not Scouting.

 

Perhaps it is helpful to refer to our mess as the "BSA's product," since most of the problems we discuss stem from the fact that (hidden by BSA training) we have replaced Scouting with stuff that boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

Basementdweller writes:

 

"But so many adults are Rank driven....If we removed that component of the program, which it seems brings the worst out in some folks, what would the Boy Scouting Look like......"

 

Actually, "rank advancement" refers to two components, neither of which are Baden-Powell's Scouting (which is to say "Scouting" in the rest of the world).

 

"Rank" in Scouting refers to a leadership position. In real Scouting, the central Rank is "Patrol Leader." The purpose of a Patrol Leader is to get a Patrol into the backwoods without adult supervision. Or, when Patrols camp together as a Troop, the purpose of a Patrol Leader is to camp a Patrol 300 feet from the nearest Patrol. The purpose of a Patrol Leader in the BSA's product is as a generic, interchangeable six-month "POR" to teach office cubical success formulas using trained, two-deep helicopters and "controlled failure."

 

There are no "POR" requirements in Scouting. A natural leader freely gives his time to others. Patrol Leaders are appointed by the Scoutmaster in consultation with the Patrol and/or Court of Honor (PLC). A Patrol Leader is chosen for his ability to move a Patrol through the backwoods without injury to the Patrol members, and his ability to run a Troop without a "Committee" of indoor mommies and daddies. For this reason alone most Wood Badgers point with pride to the fact that the BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, designed instead to "teach boys about democracy" through six month popularity contests and (as a natural consequence) constant adult surveillance.

 

There is no "Advancement" in Scouting. The closest equivalent would be "Current Proficiency," or "Progressive training in Scoutcraft and Public Service skills." Current Proficiency means constant retesting. To wear any award patch in Scouting, a Scout must repass his "qualifying badges" (such as a first aid Public Service badge) every 12-18 months. The BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, represented neatly by the slogan of Scoutcraft incompetency "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle." In other words the ability of an Eagle to tie a clove hitch or save a life is trivial. What's important is "character and leadership:" Which boils down to an Eagle's opinions, and his ability to build a park bench using pop CEO-wannabe theory.

 

There are no Boards of Review or Scout Spirit requirements in Scouting. In the BSA product, "Boy Led" means adult-controlled.

 

There are no hated schoolwork badges in Scouting. Scouting is designed to appeal to outdoor boys. The BSA product is the opposite of Scouting, designed for parlor boys by the morbidly obese: Professional BSA millionaires who hate camping.

 

There are no "service hour" requirements in Scouting. A Scout freely gives his time to others. Baden-Powell called that "Practical Christianity." In the BSA's product, boys are taught to extract compensation for services rendered. Why not just pay them to love Jesus?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[packsaddle]

When I was a teenager, my best friend's parents bought a Dairy Queen franchise. The very first thing the corporate trainer taught us? Always use the term "product" instead of "ice cream."

 

By law, soft serve is not ice cream, in the same way that (in the absence of a free market) the BSA's "product" is not Scouting.

 

Perhaps it is helpful to refer to our mess as the "BSA's product," since most of the problems we discuss stem from the fact that (hidden by BSA training) we have replaced Scouting with stuff that boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

Basementdweller writes:

 

"But so many adults are Rank driven....If we removed that component of the program, which it seems brings the worst out in some folks, what would the Boy Scouting Look like......"

 

Actually, "rank advancement" refers to two components, neither of which are Baden-Powell's Scouting (which is to say "Scouting" in the rest of the world).

 

"Rank" in Scouting refers to a leadership position. In real Scouting, the central Rank is "Patrol Leader." The purpose of a Patrol Leader is to get a Patrol into the backwoods without adult supervision. Or, when Patrols camp together as a Troop, the purpose of a Patrol Leader is to camp a Patrol 300 feet from the nearest Patrol. The purpose of a Patrol Leader in the BSA's product is as a generic, interchangeable six-month "POR" to teach office cubical success formulas using trained, two-deep helicopters and "controlled failure."

 

There are no "POR" requirements in Scouting. A natural leader freely gives his time to others. Patrol Leaders are appointed by the Scoutmaster in consultation with the Patrol and/or Court of Honor (PLC). A Patrol Leader is chosen for his ability to move a Patrol through the backwoods without injury to the Patrol members, and his ability to run a Troop without a "Committee" of indoor mommies and daddies. For this reason alone most Wood Badgers point with pride to the fact that the BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, designed instead to "teach boys about democracy" through six month popularity contests and (as a natural consequence) constant adult surveillance.

 

There is no "Advancement" in Scouting. The closest equivalent would be "Current Proficiency," or "Progressive training in Scoutcraft and Public Service skills." Current Proficiency means constant retesting. To wear any award patch in Scouting, a Scout must repass his "qualifying badges" (such as a first aid Public Service badge) every 12-18 months. The BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, represented neatly by the slogan of Scoutcraft incompetency "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle." In other words the ability of an Eagle to tie a clove hitch or save a life is trivial. What's important is "character and leadership:" Which boils down to an Eagle's opinions, and his ability to build a park bench using pop CEO-wannabe theory.

 

There are no Boards of Review or Scout Spirit requirements in Scouting. In the BSA product, "Boy Led" means adult-controlled.

 

There are no hated schoolwork badges in Scouting. Scouting is designed to appeal to outdoor boys. The BSA product is the opposite of Scouting, designed for parlor boys by the morbidly obese: Professional BSA millionaires who hate camping.

 

There are no "service hour" requirements in Scouting. A Scout freely gives his time to others. Baden-Powell called that "Practical Christianity." In the BSA's product, boys are taught to extract compensation for services rendered. Why not just pay them to love Jesus?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

Well, I can tell you this: I just love reading you, Kudu, and Basement's plain spokenness. Thanks for sticking around.

 

Kudu, after reading the above, I'm almost sorry I started that thread over in the Woodbadge forum in which I asked 'Why Woodbadge?'. But who knows, maybe someone will have a good response to it.

[King Ding Dong]

When I was a teenager, my best friend's parents bought a Dairy Queen franchise. The very first thing the corporate trainer taught us? Always use the term "product" instead of "ice cream."

 

By law, soft serve is not ice cream, in the same way that (in the absence of a free market) the BSA's "product" is not Scouting.

 

Perhaps it is helpful to refer to our mess as the "BSA's product," since most of the problems we discuss stem from the fact that (hidden by BSA training) we have replaced Scouting with stuff that boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

Basementdweller writes:

 

"But so many adults are Rank driven....If we removed that component of the program, which it seems brings the worst out in some folks, what would the Boy Scouting Look like......"

 

Actually, "rank advancement" refers to two components, neither of which are Baden-Powell's Scouting (which is to say "Scouting" in the rest of the world).

 

"Rank" in Scouting refers to a leadership position. In real Scouting, the central Rank is "Patrol Leader." The purpose of a Patrol Leader is to get a Patrol into the backwoods without adult supervision. Or, when Patrols camp together as a Troop, the purpose of a Patrol Leader is to camp a Patrol 300 feet from the nearest Patrol. The purpose of a Patrol Leader in the BSA's product is as a generic, interchangeable six-month "POR" to teach office cubical success formulas using trained, two-deep helicopters and "controlled failure."

 

There are no "POR" requirements in Scouting. A natural leader freely gives his time to others. Patrol Leaders are appointed by the Scoutmaster in consultation with the Patrol and/or Court of Honor (PLC). A Patrol Leader is chosen for his ability to move a Patrol through the backwoods without injury to the Patrol members, and his ability to run a Troop without a "Committee" of indoor mommies and daddies. For this reason alone most Wood Badgers point with pride to the fact that the BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, designed instead to "teach boys about democracy" through six month popularity contests and (as a natural consequence) constant adult surveillance.

 

There is no "Advancement" in Scouting. The closest equivalent would be "Current Proficiency," or "Progressive training in Scoutcraft and Public Service skills." Current Proficiency means constant retesting. To wear any award patch in Scouting, a Scout must repass his "qualifying badges" (such as a first aid Public Service badge) every 12-18 months. The BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, represented neatly by the slogan of Scoutcraft incompetency "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle." In other words the ability of an Eagle to tie a clove hitch or save a life is trivial. What's important is "character and leadership:" Which boils down to an Eagle's opinions, and his ability to build a park bench using pop CEO-wannabe theory.

 

There are no Boards of Review or Scout Spirit requirements in Scouting. In the BSA product, "Boy Led" means adult-controlled.

 

There are no hated schoolwork badges in Scouting. Scouting is designed to appeal to outdoor boys. The BSA product is the opposite of Scouting, designed for parlor boys by the morbidly obese: Professional BSA millionaires who hate camping.

 

There are no "service hour" requirements in Scouting. A Scout freely gives his time to others. Baden-Powell called that "Practical Christianity." In the BSA's product, boys are taught to extract compensation for services rendered. Why not just pay them to love Jesus?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

Pack I hope they do respond. I am interested in it but I want to know more about what the benefits are. What the BSA provides may not be Scouting, but that is the program we are working with.

 

I know with my son we are just going to focus on the Scoutcraft skills and fun stuff for now. At summer camp he is signed up for pioneering, basketry, cooking, geology and swimming. He is weak on knots, but we have acouple of weeks home together to work on those. We have two nurses in the troop so they will work on FA. Maybe in the fall he might tackle 1 eagle required like personal fitness. He needs that focus on building his strength.

 

He likes geology and is always curious what kind of rock something he picks up is. On a hike he found a 7 lb sandstone and insisted on putting in his pack and bringing it home.

 

I known there are school systems that fall short on civics, but it seems like he gets enough of that in school. The three Citizenship MBs just seem like not fun and overkill.

 

I will have to go back and look at some of Kudu's previous posts.

[SeattlePioneer]

<

 

>>

 

 

 

During my term as Scoutmaster from 1982-1987, my emphasis was to offer opportunities for boys to earn Tenderfoot through 1st class. Boys who wanted to do more were welcome to do so, but it wasn't a part of my troop program.

 

 

 

I still think the MOST IMPORTANT rank is First Class. We sell the promise of learning to be a competent hiker and camper to attract boys into Boy Scouts, and that's whatFirst class ought to represent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

When I was a teenager, my best friend's parents bought a Dairy Queen franchise. The very first thing the corporate trainer taught us? Always use the term "product" instead of "ice cream."

 

By law, soft serve is not ice cream, in the same way that (in the absence of a free market) the BSA's "product" is not Scouting.

 

Perhaps it is helpful to refer to our mess as the "BSA's product," since most of the problems we discuss stem from the fact that (hidden by BSA training) we have replaced Scouting with stuff that boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

Basementdweller writes:

 

"But so many adults are Rank driven....If we removed that component of the program, which it seems brings the worst out in some folks, what would the Boy Scouting Look like......"

 

Actually, "rank advancement" refers to two components, neither of which are Baden-Powell's Scouting (which is to say "Scouting" in the rest of the world).

 

"Rank" in Scouting refers to a leadership position. In real Scouting, the central Rank is "Patrol Leader." The purpose of a Patrol Leader is to get a Patrol into the backwoods without adult supervision. Or, when Patrols camp together as a Troop, the purpose of a Patrol Leader is to camp a Patrol 300 feet from the nearest Patrol. The purpose of a Patrol Leader in the BSA's product is as a generic, interchangeable six-month "POR" to teach office cubical success formulas using trained, two-deep helicopters and "controlled failure."

 

There are no "POR" requirements in Scouting. A natural leader freely gives his time to others. Patrol Leaders are appointed by the Scoutmaster in consultation with the Patrol and/or Court of Honor (PLC). A Patrol Leader is chosen for his ability to move a Patrol through the backwoods without injury to the Patrol members, and his ability to run a Troop without a "Committee" of indoor mommies and daddies. For this reason alone most Wood Badgers point with pride to the fact that the BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, designed instead to "teach boys about democracy" through six month popularity contests and (as a natural consequence) constant adult surveillance.

 

There is no "Advancement" in Scouting. The closest equivalent would be "Current Proficiency," or "Progressive training in Scoutcraft and Public Service skills." Current Proficiency means constant retesting. To wear any award patch in Scouting, a Scout must repass his "qualifying badges" (such as a first aid Public Service badge) every 12-18 months. The BSA's product is the opposite of Scouting, represented neatly by the slogan of Scoutcraft incompetency "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle." In other words the ability of an Eagle to tie a clove hitch or save a life is trivial. What's important is "character and leadership:" Which boils down to an Eagle's opinions, and his ability to build a park bench using pop CEO-wannabe theory.

 

There are no Boards of Review or Scout Spirit requirements in Scouting. In the BSA product, "Boy Led" means adult-controlled.

 

There are no hated schoolwork badges in Scouting. Scouting is designed to appeal to outdoor boys. The BSA product is the opposite of Scouting, designed for parlor boys by the morbidly obese: Professional BSA millionaires who hate camping.

 

There are no "service hour" requirements in Scouting. A Scout freely gives his time to others. Baden-Powell called that "Practical Christianity." In the BSA's product, boys are taught to extract compensation for services rendered. Why not just pay them to love Jesus?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

Thanks I think????

[jpstodwftexas]

Boy Scouts has simply become an "Eagle" Factory..Scouts no longer Earn Rank they simply advance on a Timeline. They Progress simply by having little or No skills. we have adopted a "No Scout Left Behind" concept in fear we will offend them.

 

I helped a new scout the other night on fussing and whipping a rope because the Star and Life Scouts did not know how to do it.

Scouts no longer have to learn and retain knowledge

[qwazse]

Boy Scouts has simply become an "Eagle" Factory..Scouts no longer Earn Rank they simply advance on a Timeline. They Progress simply by having little or No skills. we have adopted a "No Scout Left Behind" concept in fear we will offend them.

 

I helped a new scout the other night on fussing and whipping a rope because the Star and Life Scouts did not know how to do it.

Scouts no longer have to learn and retain knowledge

JP, happens all the time to me as well. But, I'd tell the T2FC scout "excuse me one moment while I give your SPL/PL a refresher course."

 

Then I tell the older scout to abandon that EDGE method, get with the younger scout and his book and the both of them learn together by my tried-and-true referential learning method.

 

Nobody is off the hook because of a lapse of memory.

[desertrat77]

Advancement and adventure used to coexist in the BSA.

 

I recall, as a scout in the '70s, some encouragement. But not much. Most leaders took the angle: If you want to earn Eagle, great, get to work and let me know how it goes. If you don't, that's fine, glad you are in the troop, hope you are enjoying the camping and backpacking.

 

To bring that ideal back, we'd have to officially stop emphasizing the metric of "how many scouts earned Eagle." That isn't going to happen.

 

 

Basement, though I'm several months behind in replying, I would welcome that opportunity to visit over a beverage!

[Eamonn]

Nearly all the problems that I've had with advancement have been due to parents and people who fail to grasp and understand the methods of scouting.

There are times when I read about some poor little Lad who is held up on a pedestal for becoming "The youngest Eagle Scout" or "The youngest Scout to earn each and every merit badge"

I say that he is a poor little fellow, because to my way of thinking he has been cheated or maybe even robbed of the opportunity to enjoy the journey .

 

Some years back when I served as District Chairman, one of my goals was to update and make the List of District Merit Badge Counselors a tool that really worked.

The list we had over the years had been re-formatted but never really gone over and brought up to date.

Some people on the list had moved and the list didn't have the right address or phone number, some people had quit Scouting and no longer had any involvement and a good many of the people on the list were no more, they were dead.

Working with the District Advancement Chair. And the Dean of Merit Badges, we tried to contact or find out who was where and who wanted to remain on the list.

It didn't take long for us to find out that the task was more than we could manage.

So the District Committee (With a lot of help from me.) Made it known that the list was being done away with in six months time and a new list would be made available. Anyone wanting to be on the new District Merit Badge list would have to apply and the District Advancement Committee would approve or not approve the application.

 

Boy oh Boy!! Did I ever get it.

Some people thought that I was being very unfair. I received a few nasty emails and the parking lot meetings held after R/T and other District meetings lasted longer than ever.

The District Advancement Chair. Who was and still is a very nice fellow had requested that unless there were special circumstances, that people not apply for more than five badges.

There was one ASM in a Troop that was on the old list down for 137!

Of course I knew and the Advancement Chair. knew that according to the guide lines that National put out, we couldn't stop anyone being a MBC for more than five, but the guide lines didn't say that the anyone would be guaranteed to be on the list for more than five.

 

Six months past and soon after we had our new list,

The Advancement Committee and the Dean of MB's had worked their tails off.

I was very proud that one of my goals had been reached.

 

A little while later I just happened to be in the Council Service Center when a Scouter from the District arrived.

He was getting ready for a COH that was happening later that week. He had a big stack of blue cards.

The nice Lady who works in the Council Scout Shop gave him the badges that he asked for.

I was a little upset and called the Council Advancement Chair. Telling him that it was a waste of the Districts time, working on District MB Lists and having people apply to be MBC's if at the end of the day no one in the Service Center was checking the Blue Cards.

He must have talked with someone?

I received a call from our DE saying that the girls in the "Office" were in an uproar telling the SE that they just didn't have time to check these Blue Cards.

Oh! Well You win some and you lose some.

Eamonn

[perdidochas]

Boy Scouts has simply become an "Eagle" Factory..Scouts no longer Earn Rank they simply advance on a Timeline. They Progress simply by having little or No skills. we have adopted a "No Scout Left Behind" concept in fear we will offend them.

 

I helped a new scout the other night on fussing and whipping a rope because the Star and Life Scouts did not know how to do it.

Scouts no longer have to learn and retain knowledge

If the older scouts can't whip a rope, it's not the boys fault--it's the leaders' fault for not having enough opportunities to do it. Personally, I think whipping a rope is almost an obsolete skill (yes, I can do it, and I'm pretty good at it), as most ropes now are fused. I know in "real" life I never whip a rope, but I often fuse a rope. That said, I'm not a sailor.

 

I don't understand the problem with EDGE. It's basic teaching--tell how to do it, show it, help them do it, and give them a chance to do it. The real problem is that we are not doing the EDGE method, not some problem with the EDGE method. The problem is we are not doing the last E. If we were, we wouldn't be having problem reteaching it.

 

I think an easy way to increase knot knowledge by scouts is to have a bucket full of 2-3 ft long pieces of rope. If scouts have rope available, they will tie knots. Before long, you have an impromptu knot contest. Until a year ago, my troop met in a church gym, that we shared with every other group that our COR offered. They gave us an old classroom trailer for our use last October. I've seen an improvement in knot knowledge because we have that bucket of rope always available.