Basementdweller Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Watching the antics over at bryan on scouting..... The crazy stuff with merit badges......The bickering and carrying on about 13 total service hours..... I wonder.......What would happen if the Boy Scouts adopted something along an age based rank system???? Just musing or maybe even trolling.... But so many adults are Rank driven....Our own KDD is worried about his scout getting passed by other boys, Krampus has parents beating him up over scout spirit and marginal skills..... If we removed that component of the program, which is seems brings the worst out in some folks, what would the Boy Scouting Look like...... Would summer camps still be merit badge fests????? What about merit badge boot camps????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 If no rank to work towards, what's the point..... just flounder along, doing various activities and outings...... talking about "stuff".....with no specific point or direction.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceEagle Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Earning the rank of Eagle Scout is one of the accomplishments that I am most proud of. It was not an easy road by any means, and like many scouts, when faced with competitng priorities for my time, I questioned whether "Eagle" was really worth it. I decided it was and continued and did what I needed to do to earn the rank. Simply giving out ranks to boys just for 'being there' would completely undermine the value of all ranks. The ranks only mean something as long as they're actually earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Watching the antics over at bryan on scouting..... "Basement Bob," I presume? Quite the battle you're putting on. Definitely a lot of dumb going on in the comments for that blog. After he decided to turn his scouting manual into a full-blown program for boys, Baden-Powell's program had no advancement, and it didn't float. When he incorporated Seton's Woodcraft Indians advancement concept, he had what he needed: motivation. Young men can camp, fish, set fires, play Frisbee, build a robot, toast marshmallows, and fool with rope anywhere. They get the ceremony, recognition, belonging/bonding, etc. in Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 BD. Sounds like your talking about the venturing program. (Awards and recognition instead of advancement.) The one youth in my crew who actually pursued a bronze award was thrilled to be able to do the equivalent work of obtaining Star rank without the hassle of collecting badges along the way. I've kept venturing awards strictly voluntary. Only one in 40 venturers have taken up the challenge. And my crew still holds together. But ... I may not be seeing the numbers that other crews see because, since we don't have a culture of mostly everyone pushing through the gauntlet, my program doesn't have the structure that other crews provide. Only the self-starters get the awards in my crew. The rest get a pat on the back when they step up and lead something. That's satisfying for some, pointless for others. I could see the problem being even a little worse if applied to Jr. High kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Without advancement, it's an outdoor club, and nothing more. Nothing wrong with that, and BSA provides cheap insurance in return for lots of paperwork, but it would cease being scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Advancement and adventure used to coexist in the BSA. I recall, as a scout in the '70s, some encouragement. But not much. Most leaders took the angle: If you want to earn Eagle, great, get to work and let me know how it goes. If you don't, that's fine, glad you are in the troop, hope you are enjoying the camping and backpacking. To bring that ideal back, we'd have to officially stop emphasizing the metric of "how many scouts earned Eagle." That isn't going to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venividi Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Gasp! Next I suppose you will propose that kids could get benefit from organizing their own neighborhood teams to play baseball in the summer in some vacant lot somewhere. How can kids be expected to organize themselves without the benefit of adults? what if they choose to modify the rules to their liking? Where are the trophies? How could a kid ever develop baseball skills if therre are no trophies to be had? Pure fun and enjoyment doesn't provide that type of motivation! (this was sarcasm, in case anyone had any doubt). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 If no rank to work towards, what's the point..... just flounder along, doing various activities and outings...... talking about "stuff".....with no specific point or direction.....?I am entertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Watching the antics over at bryan on scouting..... "Basement Bob," I presume? Quite the battle you're putting on. Definitely a lot of dumb going on in the comments for that blog. After he decided to turn his scouting manual into a full-blown program for boys, Baden-Powell's program had no advancement, and it didn't float. When he incorporated Seton's Woodcraft Indians advancement concept, he had what he needed: motivation. Young men can camp, fish, set fires, play Frisbee, build a robot, toast marshmallows, and fool with rope anywhere. They get the ceremony, recognition, belonging/bonding, etc. in Scouts. Ya that's me..... I just see folks short cutting how the program was intended........ The discussion in the service hour thread is completely ridiculous.......We are talking 13 total service hours to get you to the Rank of Life scout. My point in that discussion was your scout wastes that in a week on video games, and social media alone......So there should be no reason to double or triple count hours. We have boys getting awarded, notice I didn't say Earning, Eagle without ever having to call a merit badge councilor on the telephone and arrange a meeting. We have boys camping in backyards over summer break to get their nights of camping for the camping merit badge. then the one fellow who can quote you line by line from the GTA.... We have boys picking up trash and planting flower beds for Eagle projects...... I love the Eagle gift thread.......We have Scoutmasters buying their eagles rifles, sit down formal dinners and on and on and on...... With my plain talk and simplistic view of things, I am a popular fellow over there as well. I just shake my head..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Earning the rank of Eagle Scout is one of the accomplishments that I am most proud of. It was not an easy road by any means, and like many scouts, when faced with competitng priorities for my time, I questioned whether "Eagle" was really worth it. I decided it was and continued and did what I needed to do to earn the rank. Simply giving out ranks to boys just for 'being there' would completely undermine the value of all ranks. The ranks only mean something as long as they're actually earned. I am an Eagle scout as well. I used to be very proud of the accomplishment. But I look at the EXTREMELY POOR Quality of some the new eagle scouts and well I am not as proud of it. Because regardless of the fact you and I actually did the work to earn it.....I will say that 50% have not and yet still have the right to call themselves Eagle scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Advancement and adventure used to coexist in the BSA. I recall, as a scout in the '70s, some encouragement. But not much. Most leaders took the angle: If you want to earn Eagle, great, get to work and let me know how it goes. If you don't, that's fine, glad you are in the troop, hope you are enjoying the camping and backpacking. To bring that ideal back, we'd have to officially stop emphasizing the metric of "how many scouts earned Eagle." That isn't going to happen. You and I have similar views on scouting and at some point I hope our paths cross and I can buy ya a beverage of your choice and chat for a couple of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Gasp! Next I suppose you will propose that kids could get benefit from organizing their own neighborhood teams to play baseball in the summer in some vacant lot somewhere. How can kids be expected to organize themselves without the benefit of adults? what if they choose to modify the rules to their liking? Where are the trophies? How could a kid ever develop baseball skills if therre are no trophies to be had? Pure fun and enjoyment doesn't provide that type of motivation! (this was sarcasm, in case anyone had any doubt).Same for you veni......I would really enjoy sitting down and chatting.... The fun is lost in the race to Eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 The cub parents.....what oh my gosh no rank advancement......Your right the cub scout program would no longer exsist because most adults have no clue what to do with a bunch of 8 year old boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 That is one aspects of our troop I really enjoy. There doesn't seem to be a race to eagle I have never had a new scout show up with a 3 inch binder and his plan to get to eagle. I watch my scouts on campouts.....The SPL holds camp gadget races....that was outstanding to watch the different ideas to fix the problem......I watch their fire building contest......I watch them correct for dinner mistakes.....the group truly are friends inside and outside of scouting. I guess advancement is very organic in our troop. I asked a scout last night if he had time for his SMC for second class.....He asked if he could do it after the meeting......they were having fun and it couldn't be uninterrupted.....My point, he had no idea he completed second class..... I read here and on other scouting blogs that the Troop has to organize an advancement weekend.....Why is that???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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