May 23rd predictions and post-vote plans

[DigitalScout]

IS THE NEW POLICY ENACTED? (YES / NO)

 

YES - THE NEW POLICY IS ENACTED:

 

- See if our C.O. drops us (YES / NO)

 

- If YES:

 

- Work with troop on attempting to find new C.O. Maybe quit. See what my son wants to do.

 

- If NO:

 

- Carry on as usual, unless there is a sudden influx of avowed homosexual scouts.

 

IS THERE A SUDDEN INFLUX OF AVOWED HOMOSEXUAL SCOUTS? (YES / NO)

 

- If NO:

 

- Carry on as usual. Suggest we initiate testing to confirm presence of covert infiltrators (assign point scale for how they cross their legs, how they hold a baseball bat, unusual or excessive knowledge of show tune lyrics, etc.) just in case.

 

- If YES:

 

- Discuss how we handle youth safety procedures in light of the new policy.

 

- Assess how much things change, and how rapidly (becoming co-ed, admitting atheists, admitting adult homosexuals) before making decisions on whether to withdraw.

 

- If problems are insurmountable, withdraw.

 

Old Policy Affirmed:

 

- Carry on as normal. No one has mentioned leaving our troop if the policy is not changed.

 

- Prepare for flag-planting ceremony at Veteran's Cemetery.

 

- Prepare for next camp-out.

 

- Waste countless hours reading and posting about the subject on Scouter.com until the technical bugs get so bad I stop posting.

If leg crossing, awkward bat holding and excessive show tune singing are the criteria, then 90% of the dad's in our troop are surely gay

[EmberMike]

BPSA founded in 2008 and run out of a guys basement in Washington Mo. (small town outside of St. Louis) 19 units nationwide. Not sure I would jump

in with both feet with this group if the vote does not go your way. Last I read about them they were looking for donations to fund background checks

for potential leaders. I guess all groups have to start somewhere.

I'd jump into the BPSA with both feet before I'd get back into the BSA with little chance of ever seeing the policy of discrimination ending.

[DeanRx]

and I shall finish the game.... scout on! scout on! scout on!

 

I may continue to push internally for what I believe to be the morally correct path for BSA to follow - but it will change very little (if anything) at the local unit level. So long as my sons have an interest, we will be active in scouting.

[eaglewolfdad]

EmberMike, Godspeed

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Regardless of what decision is made, continue on exactly as we are. What's the big deal?

[Sentinel947]

I will continue my involvement with the Boy Scouts of America either way this shakes out.

 

[EmberMike]

I will not leave the scouts if the resolution passes or fails. I will not leave because I will not deny my son the scouting experience. It is a worthwhile and valuable experience, even if the organization includes this horrible flaw. It is not a fatal flaw. If the child abuse scandals did not destroy the BSA, I can't see how the mistreatment of such a small minority is going to destroy it. If I refused to associate with organizations or people who failed to live up to their own ideals, I would find myself very, very isolated.

 

I will continue to lobby for change if the resolution passes or fails. I will start wearing a rainbow neckerchief slide to roundtable just to be provocative. I've decided to become provocative because I've been watching the 1982 Gandhi film. I came to appreciate his method very much. A few quotes: "The function of a civil resistance is to provoke response and we will continue to provoke until they respond or change the law." / "And when you do that [turn the other cheek], it calls on something in human nature... something that makes his hatred for you decrease and his respect increase." / "I want to change their minds. I don't want to kill them for weaknesses we all posses."

 

I honestly believe that the whole problem is a rather simple matter of us v. them. My attitudes towards homosexuals changed a great deal when I actually had dealings with real live homosexuals in the work place, day after day. We are the same. Homosexuals make up a small minority of Americans. They make up an even smaller minority of scouts. If more scouters had more contact with homosexual scouts and parents, there would be less fear and more acceptance. I don't know how to make that happen.

The King has it right. Most people have met many gay people in their lives and not known it.

 

I sat 10 feet away from a gay guy at the place I worked several years back. Sat right there next to him, 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, working together, talking, B.S.-ing about whatever, etc., for 2 years. I never knew he was gay. He was a guy's guy, grew up in a rural little town out west, was an ice-hockey player in a local adult league, loved the Star Wars films, there was nothing about his outward appearance or his personality that would make you think anything about his sexual preference. Or if it did, it would have you guessing he was straight, just like it had me assuming. It wasn't until years later when I reconnected with him on Facebook that I found out he was gay.

[EmberMike]

Regardless of what decision is made, continue on exactly as we are. What's the big deal?

To me, the big deal is that I'm currently inactive in Scouting, but with my son quickly approaching Scouting age and my wife and I planning to get him involved in Scouting as soon as he's able, we face the dilemma of having to decide whether to enter back into the organization after a vote that will either reaffirm a discriminatory policy or start the process of ending it. If the vote reaffirms the policy and we still decide to put our son in the program, I feel like we're saying that it's ok to discriminate.

 

I honestly think it's a different story for parents of kids already in the BSA. As it was for my parents. Even just a couple of years ago, the anti-gay policy wasn't as widely known about, even among people who were themselves in the BSA or had kids in the BSA. It wasn't headline news not too long ago. I would certainly fault no one for sticking with it if they started out in the BSA a couple of years ago or more.

 

But entering into the BSA now, it's different, and whether we like it or not, it's making a statement one way or the other. Not many people can say they didn't know much about the policy anymore.

[WAKWIB]

First, one needs to realize that this vote one-way-or-the-other does not clear up the matter. For me, it's starting to become just a lot of unwelcome noise. Scouting has been a part of my identity for over 40 years, almost as much a part of me as family, church and profession. It would never be easy for me to cut the cord for any reason and policy has always ranked low on my list...kind of came from that school of thought that "rules are meant to be broken" . I am at a bit of a crossroads right now as to level of involvement but it's not really related to this business. Kids are out of Scouting, and I'm approaching the empty nest phase. Work has pressed for most of my attention the last couple of years, so I'm hit-and-miss with Scouting activities as it is. So...no matter what happens at the vote, I'll take it one day at a time, but I will always cherish my Scouting background.

[packsaddle]

WAKWIB, I understand. I'm already past the empty nest phase but with new SM and other turnovers, they want to keep me around for 'continuity' or some such. I'm currently working to help revitalize the committee. Plus there's always a crop of new parents who are unfamiliar with the process. So I do what I can. All of them seem oblivious to the membership policy. I seriously doubt that any of them read the DRP before they sign the application. Some of them are gay. No one seems to care, or even notice. So we just try to ignore the stupidity. I'm sorry for the hate that others see or feel so often.

[Gone]

@EmberMike...the BSA policy has always been well known. Don't kid yourself. The reason that it is more "open" now is because of activism, social media and the recent swing in this country of the political pendulum. But the policy has always been well known.

[Basementdweller]

There are two huge elements missing....

 

BPSA Troops...... While scouting can be completed alone per the lone scout program.......for me it misses the bulk of program benefit...Small group dynamics and leadership.

 

 

Then the Eagle brand.......even though it ain't what it used to be with the watering down of the requirements......to the uneducated it is still an impressive achievement.

 

[Basementdweller]

I don't believe the policy was well know till the Dale decision....

 

as a youth in the 70's I don't believe the policy was well known at all. We had a gay ASM back then, single lived with his mother, No big deal, parents kinda raised their eyebrows when he was around never knew why to much later.... BTW, that was pre-youth protection.

 

[Krampus]

@EmberMike...the BSA policy has always been well known. Don't kid yourself. The reason that it is more "open" now is because of activism, social media and the recent swing in this country of the political pendulum. But the policy has always been well known.

Agreed. While there were instances of scouts coming out or scoutmasters being found out, I know my friends knew being gay in scouting was a non-starter.

[King Ding Dong]

@EmberMike...the BSA policy has always been well known. Don't kid yourself. The reason that it is more "open" now is because of activism, social media and the recent swing in this country of the political pendulum. But the policy has always been well known.

I may have been well known among those who have strong feelings on either side of the issue but not so much to the vast middle. I have been in scouting for 5 years now but only two as a leader. The issue never came up in my training. I honestly was not aware of it until the issue of denying Eagles to teens exploded in the news recently. I was always in public school based programs, but I always imagined that it might be an issue in a church based program, not because of the BSA but the church it self. I guess I always assumed a "local option". I missed the whole Dale case as I was not involved at time, and not as much as a new junkie at the time. I also don't use middlemen in my relationship with God, so nobody was thumping me over the issue.

 

I suspect my experience is similar to the public at large. Most parents do not have much of a connection to the BSA beyond their local unit and if it is not an issue to the local leadership why would the parent know about it. I am not asserting it was a secret, but was certainly not something the BSA promoted in its advertisements. Or on the application for that matter.