May 23rd predictions and post-vote plans

[EmberMike]

The big vote is right around the corner. Any thoughts on how it might turn out?

 

Personally, I suspect it will go in favor of allowing gay scouts. I just don't think there is enough support for the exclusion of kids. If this were a combined vote, asking people to allow or disallow gay scouts and adults at the same time, I think there would be far stronger support for maintaining the current ban.

 

If, somehow, it goes badly (in my opinion) then there's no future in Scouting for my family. We'll be looking at alternative organizations like the BPSA. I would continue to push the BSA to change the policy and hope that they did eventually change it, and I would continue to hold my Eagle medal and retain my rank (I'm not in favor of giving up the rank in opposition to a policy, I think Eagles should hold their rank and push the organization to right a wrong). But I couldn't in good conscience enroll my kids in the program knowing that after repeated defeats to efforts to make the change happen, it was highly unlikely that any significant change would occur any time soon.

 

 

[packsaddle]

EmberMike, as much as I agree with your views on this, none of us can truly 'know' how we will respond until whatever-is-going-to-happen happens. Wait until we see the outcome, then report what we have done in response. Those things we CAN truly know.

[DigitalScout]

We have a cub scout mom starting a BPSA unit for her 7yo daughter. We will be running the BPSA program in parallel to our cub scout program and treating the BPSA unit just like a den.

[AZMike]

IS THE NEW POLICY ENACTED? (YES / NO)

 

YES - THE NEW POLICY IS ENACTED:

 

- See if our C.O. drops us (YES / NO)

 

- If YES:

 

- Work with troop on attempting to find new C.O. Maybe quit. See what my son wants to do.

 

- If NO:

 

- Carry on as usual, unless there is a sudden influx of avowed homosexual scouts.

 

IS THERE A SUDDEN INFLUX OF AVOWED HOMOSEXUAL SCOUTS? (YES / NO)

 

- If NO:

 

- Carry on as usual. Suggest we initiate testing to confirm presence of covert infiltrators (assign point scale for how they cross their legs, how they hold a baseball bat, unusual or excessive knowledge of show tune lyrics, etc.) just in case.

 

- If YES:

 

- Discuss how we handle youth safety procedures in light of the new policy.

 

- Assess how much things change, and how rapidly (becoming co-ed, admitting atheists, admitting adult homosexuals) before making decisions on whether to withdraw.

 

- If problems are insurmountable, withdraw.

 

Old Policy Affirmed:

 

- Carry on as normal. No one has mentioned leaving our troop if the policy is not changed.

 

- Prepare for flag-planting ceremony at Veteran's Cemetery.

 

- Prepare for next camp-out.

 

- Waste countless hours reading and posting about the subject on Scouter.com until the technical bugs get so bad I stop posting.

 

[Rick_in_CA]

Carry on as usual. Suggest we initiate testing to confirm presence of covert infiltrators (assign point scale for how they cross their legs' date=' how they hold a baseball bat, unusual or excessive knowledge of show tune lyrics, etc.) just in case. [/quote']

 

That part really made me smile. Thanks AZMike!

 

[eaglewolfdad]

BPSA founded in 2008 and run out of a guys basement in Washington Mo. (small town outside of St. Louis) 19 units nationwide. Not sure I would jump

in with both feet with this group if the vote does not go your way. Last I read about them they were looking for donations to fund background checks

for potential leaders. I guess all groups have to start somewhere.

 

[Scouter99]

We have a cub scout mom starting a BPSA unit for her 7yo daughter. We will be running the BPSA program in parallel to our cub scout program and treating the BPSA unit just like a den.

That sounds like an excellent way to get your charter revoked.

[Scouter99]

BPSA founded in 2008 and run out of a guys basement in Washington Mo. (small town outside of St. Louis) 19 units nationwide. Not sure I would jump

in with both feet with this group if the vote does not go your way. Last I read about them they were looking for donations to fund background checks

for potential leaders. I guess all groups have to start somewhere.

The total cost a a criminal BG check and a check of the child abuse/neglect (which are mutually exclusive in far too many cases) in my state is $25 between two agencies (state police and state DSS); why would anyone need donations to cover that? It's small enough to simply require applicants to cover it themselves.

[eaglewolfdad]

Scouter99, they were in the midst of trying to fund a variety of line items. The following jumped out at me when I read the material. I started researching the org after several forum

members started to advocate the group as an alternative to BSA.

 

Be able to handle and process proper background checks for all registering adult members in the BPSA as part of our continuing Code of Ethics and Youth Protection policy.

[howarthe]

I will not leave the scouts if the resolution passes or fails. I will not leave because I will not deny my son the scouting experience. It is a worthwhile and valuable experience, even if the organization includes this horrible flaw. It is not a fatal flaw. If the child abuse scandals did not destroy the BSA, I can't see how the mistreatment of such a small minority is going to destroy it. If I refused to associate with organizations or people who failed to live up to their own ideals, I would find myself very, very isolated.

 

I will continue to lobby for change if the resolution passes or fails. I will start wearing a rainbow neckerchief slide to roundtable just to be provocative. I've decided to become provocative because I've been watching the 1982 Gandhi film. I came to appreciate his method very much. A few quotes: "The function of a civil resistance is to provoke response and we will continue to provoke until they respond or change the law." / "And when you do that [turn the other cheek], it calls on something in human nature... something that makes his hatred for you decrease and his respect increase." / "I want to change their minds. I don't want to kill them for weaknesses we all posses."

 

I honestly believe that the whole problem is a rather simple matter of us v. them. My attitudes towards homosexuals changed a great deal when I actually had dealings with real live homosexuals in the work place, day after day. We are the same. Homosexuals make up a small minority of Americans. They make up an even smaller minority of scouts. If more scouters had more contact with homosexual scouts and parents, there would be less fear and more acceptance. I don't know how to make that happen.

 

[Basementdweller]

Who cares........

 

Our local program will not change one bit..........

 

There are a couple of Units that have folded or will fold if it passes....... We have received a couple of refugee's at the Pack level and nothing yet at the troop. I have contacted the DE for rosters but he is refusing to give the one units to me because they are still active because they filed a charter 6 months ago.... If he waits till november or december to give them too me it will be too late and we will have lost the boys.

 

[Basementdweller]

We have a cub scout mom starting a BPSA unit for her 7yo daughter. We will be running the BPSA program in parallel to our cub scout program and treating the BPSA unit just like a den.

I am not sure what you get for your membership fee with the BPSA.....Most of the awards are out of canada. I will say I do like their uniforms better than the BSA.

 

We are using the program with a sibling den in the Pack....Not paid the fee.. Again not sure what we are getting for the dollars.

 

The BPSA Den leaders are BSA Pack members so they have been background checked with the BSA and have current BSA youth protection training.

[DigitalScout]

I will not leave the scouts if the resolution passes or fails. I will not leave because I will not deny my son the scouting experience. It is a worthwhile and valuable experience, even if the organization includes this horrible flaw. It is not a fatal flaw. If the child abuse scandals did not destroy the BSA, I can't see how the mistreatment of such a small minority is going to destroy it. If I refused to associate with organizations or people who failed to live up to their own ideals, I would find myself very, very isolated.

 

I will continue to lobby for change if the resolution passes or fails. I will start wearing a rainbow neckerchief slide to roundtable just to be provocative. I've decided to become provocative because I've been watching the 1982 Gandhi film. I came to appreciate his method very much. A few quotes: "The function of a civil resistance is to provoke response and we will continue to provoke until they respond or change the law." / "And when you do that [turn the other cheek], it calls on something in human nature... something that makes his hatred for you decrease and his respect increase." / "I want to change their minds. I don't want to kill them for weaknesses we all posses."

 

I honestly believe that the whole problem is a rather simple matter of us v. them. My attitudes towards homosexuals changed a great deal when I actually had dealings with real live homosexuals in the work place, day after day. We are the same. Homosexuals make up a small minority of Americans. They make up an even smaller minority of scouts. If more scouters had more contact with homosexual scouts and parents, there would be less fear and more acceptance. I don't know how to make that happen.

Great post - your courage is inspirational. I think most of the anti-gay crowd has never met a real life gay person. If they have, they would understand that they are just like everyone else.

[DigitalScout]

We have a cub scout mom starting a BPSA unit for her 7yo daughter. We will be running the BPSA program in parallel to our cub scout program and treating the BPSA unit just like a den.

My plan is the same: have the BPSA unit leaders registered as BSA den leaders for the background check and training.

 

I'll pay the BPSA fee if anything just to support them. I'all take it out of my FOS contribution.

 

Our CO thinks it's a great idea and is very supportive. They are awesome like that.

[King Ding Dong]

I will not leave the scouts if the resolution passes or fails. I will not leave because I will not deny my son the scouting experience. It is a worthwhile and valuable experience, even if the organization includes this horrible flaw. It is not a fatal flaw. If the child abuse scandals did not destroy the BSA, I can't see how the mistreatment of such a small minority is going to destroy it. If I refused to associate with organizations or people who failed to live up to their own ideals, I would find myself very, very isolated.

 

I will continue to lobby for change if the resolution passes or fails. I will start wearing a rainbow neckerchief slide to roundtable just to be provocative. I've decided to become provocative because I've been watching the 1982 Gandhi film. I came to appreciate his method very much. A few quotes: "The function of a civil resistance is to provoke response and we will continue to provoke until they respond or change the law." / "And when you do that [turn the other cheek], it calls on something in human nature... something that makes his hatred for you decrease and his respect increase." / "I want to change their minds. I don't want to kill them for weaknesses we all posses."

 

I honestly believe that the whole problem is a rather simple matter of us v. them. My attitudes towards homosexuals changed a great deal when I actually had dealings with real live homosexuals in the work place, day after day. We are the same. Homosexuals make up a small minority of Americans. They make up an even smaller minority of scouts. If more scouters had more contact with homosexual scouts and parents, there would be less fear and more acceptance. I don't know how to make that happen.

I am sure they have met them. They just didn't realize it.